# Community Feedback: We Are Live!



## VSadmin

We are excited to announce that we are live on our new forum platform!

It's been a long time coming. Let's face it. Sometimes older forum technology lags behind other parts of the internet. Although seeing the same format for a long time is comforting, the member experience shouldn't include dealing with outdated, unsafe, slow software.

The transition to a new platform will never be 100% smooth but the days of dealing with out of date forum software are over. We have teams dedicated to building a world-class community for you. The development has been steady with regular software releases since May 2019. Asking members for feedback and coming up with ideas for improvement is what we want.

*Speed and Reliability Are Key*
No one should have to wait for information. This site has been built to be much faster and more reliable, period.

*New Homepage Experience*
Our algorithm will serve a personal customized feed based on your prior engagement with content on the site. If you've liked and or commented, or are following certain topics that are of interest to you, similar content will appear at the top of the homepage.

*Search*
We have introduced new search algorithms, powered by an industry-leading AI platform, to help you find information faster. We plan to roll out new features to continue improving search, and to power many additional areas of the forum.








Due to the volume of content, our search platform may take some time to complete indexing over the first few days after migrating. During this process, you may see a limited number of posts until indexing has been completed. We appreciate your patience.

*Finding Your Way Around*
We have made the design clean and simple to use. Near the upper right-hand corner of the community, you will see navigation icons.

The first icon is for what's new on the site.








Clicking on it, by default, will take you to new unread posts. On that page, you can click on additional tabs as well, such as Popular, if you prefer to view active topics.








Clicking the list icon next to "NEW" will bring you to the full forum listing.








Clicking your avatar will give you a drop-down menu for all things related to your account.








You can also navigate more by clicking the 3 vertical dots.








*Dark Mode*
We have introduced Dark Mode. One of our favorite features allows you to access the site with a power-saving, and easier on the eyes dark mode. You can access it in the drop-down menu under the 3 vertical dots.

*Save Bookmarks*
Now you can save your favorite discussion threads and posts! Bookmarks are a handy way to remember and easily find great content or stuff you want to read later.








We also wanted to make it easier for new users to understand the lingo of forums. We have cleaned up various language to more commonly recognized phrases including:

*Following* - Thread subscriptions, and Watched are now known as Following
*Conversations *- Private Messages or PMs are now conversations and can be accessed from the user avatar drop-down in the main navigation
*Showcase* - Showcase is designed for users to "showcase" items/projects through the use of uploaded images, text descriptions and custom content categories. It's a way to visually and textually provide detailed information on the content you wish to share. The showcase would be similar to a catalog, whereas the gallery would be like a photo album. It can be accessed from the drop-down menu with the 3 dots.
Take a tour and look around! Check out the Help section for some quick *FAQs* about the new platform.

Please keep all feedback, questions, concerns, requests for help, etc.regarding the new platform right here in this Feedback thread. This will help us make sure not to miss a request for help and also let us pass along your thoughts to our Product team. The Admins and I will be here to help along the way taking note of your comments.

- Community Support


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## buddy lee

Ok, I think this is going to be really great in the long run. First thing I notice is how much simpler it is to add an image to a post, woo hoo!


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## VSadmin

Hello!

I will be here today as we begin to unpack from the move to this new software update. You may have a lot of questions or comments or may need help orienting yourself to some of the things that look different around here. I hope I can help you feel comfortable navigating around.

My name is Jeff, and I have been helping people figure out this software for the past year. Orienteering through new environments has always been in my life, from the different countries, states, and cities I’ve moved between throughout my life. Orienting yourself to new software usually takes time and I’ve found that having someone there along the way can help y’all get your bearings. While we all work through the new layout, it is all of these skills that I hope to bring here to you now.

Orienteering is never an easy skill, but with me, as your guide through the site, I hope that we can explore this brave new look for the site together. I won’t always have an immediate answer to your question, but I will work to find you the most accurate information together.

Jeff M


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## VSadmin

Please don't be afraid to explore and test out things to see how they work on the site. You can also see our FAQs here!

Although you can certainly use the "insert image" icon to upload an image to your post, you can also just drag and drop it to the text editor or even copy/paste it into there!










You can easily share your fave or latest videos just by adding the URL directly into the text editor!






Gif links from sites like giphy.com will display automatically just by adding the gif URL directly in the text editor. Try it while you're looking around the site!










I am also a huge fan of the dark mode for the community, it's much easier on the eyes. What is your favorite feature?

I will be here to answer questions and to help you navigate, as needed.

Jeff M


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## VSadmin

*NOTE:*

There is still some work going on behind the scenes on the following items so might notice some of the items below:


Search is indexing so might take 24-48 hours for it to complete and return proper results, this also includes showing all your threads/posts under your profile.
We will continue to clean up the order of the main index page so you might see some stuff move around there.
We will also be reviewing permissions and special permissions sections so flag anything you notice and we can look into it.
The homepage content and other old static content will be migrated to threads so if you see something missing just ask, some might take a while to reformat so will not be live ASAP.
Some of it has already been converted to threads here: Sax on the Web Forum

This is not the new software platform's final form as we will be releasing weekly updates to squash bugs and add new features so hang tight if you are missing something as it is likely on our radar to restore with futures updates.

Enjoy your new home!

Jeff M


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## dexdex

Hi All. Congrats to the IT people behind the screens, must have been and still is a huge challenge. Someone was anxious about losing his status. Just seen they are still here, as well as our signatures. I even have swiss ads, in tcherman, on the right. Alles Beste !
Nice job, really.







Edit: picture added using my iPad. Subarashii !


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## VSadmin

dexdex said:


> Hi All. Congrats to the IT people behind the screens, must have been and still is a huge challenge. Someone was anxious to loose his status. Just seen they are still here, as well as our signatures.
> Nice job, really.


Thank you for your kind words.

I will share with the teams work behind the scenes.

Let us know if you have any questions.

Jeff M


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## Sigmund451

Why did my avatar go away?


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## lesacks

That seems to have gone very smoothly, I add my congratulations to the team.

In *New>New Posts *seems a bit flooded with vsadmin posts - I guess these are articles from before - which don't get set as _Read_ with *Mark All Read*. Is that as expected?


Nice that text formatting now works from tablets / phones easily!
Now we can all mess with colours! (Though the red is unreadable in dark mode... Which has some advantages ?)


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## JayeLID

I am looking at the "new posts section". The new posts only appear to list the Thread in which the latest post occurred, not the actual new post itself (which the old version "activity" list would show).

There seem to be new posts on certain threads as far back as an hour ago, then no new posts between an hour ago and 8 hrs ago, when VS Admin started a bunch of threads - which I assume were posted as a test of the new format.

Is this actually so ? Have there really been new posts to only 13 or 14 threads, since VS Admin's test postings 8 hours ago ?

Or are some new posts to other threads not showing up on the "New" page ? *This is all a long-winded way of asking :

When I click on the New navigation button, is there any way I can pull up a 'recent activity' list which was akin to the old one...a list which actually shows the individual replies/comments posted recently (as opposed to just the Threads they were posted on) ???*


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## sax.hobby

I like the new look and interface, and it's nice that I can see the marketplace now (though not sure if that's intended).


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## Sigmund451

Skip the above question..got it.
thanks


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## VSadmin

lesacks said:


> That seems to have gone very smoothly, I add my congratulations to the team.
> 
> In *New>New Posts *seems a bit flooded with vsadmin posts - I guess these are articles from before - which don't get set as _Read_ with *Mark All Read*. Is that as expected?
> 
> 
> Nice that text formatting now works from tablets / phones easily!
> Now we can all mess with colours! (Though the red is unreadable in dark mode... Which has some advantages ?)


That is the static content that migrated over from the old homepage we will remove it from "New Posts".

Enjoy the new tools.

Jeff M


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## VSadmin

JayeLID said:


> I am looking at the "new posts section". The new posts only appear to list the Thread in which the latest post occurred, not the actual new post itself (which the old version "activity" list would show).
> 
> There seem to be new posts on certain threads as far back as an hour ago, then no new posts between an hour ago and 8 hrs ago, when VS Admin started a bunch of threads - which I assume were posted as a test of the new format.
> 
> Is this actually so ? Have there really been new posts to only 13 or 14 threads, since VS Admin's test postings 8 hours ago ?
> 
> Or are some new posts to other threads not showing up on the "New" page ? *This is all a long-winded way of asking :
> 
> When I click on the New navigation button, is there any way I can pull up a 'recent activity' list which was akin to the old one...a list which actually shows the individual replies/comments posted recently (as opposed to just the Threads they were posted on) ???*
> 
> View attachment 4278


See above post as we are sorting out those post from "New Posts"

We have a tutorial in the FAQ to filter "New Posts".








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net





You can accomplish this by setting a custom default filter on the new posts page.

*Step 1 *Navigate to the specific forum you want to focus on and click "Follow Forum".










*Step 2* From the navigation, near the upper right-hand corner, click on NEW.










This will open a new page of new posts for you. On the new page, click on filters.










Now you can adjust the filters to work for your personal preferences, such as the example above and save it as the default. Make sure to click the "filter" button to save it, at the bottom.

Jeff M


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## reeddoubler

I suppose I should thank you, since I have squandered far too much time perusing SOTW this past 20 years or so. But now with your new format, I can happily stop spending any more time on this site! I’m not sure what you were trying to accomplish, but “new Coke” comes to mind!


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## VSadmin

sax.hobby said:


> I like the new look and interface, and it's nice that I can see the marketplace now (though not sure if that's intended).


We have implemented the rules back for classifieds after working with @Pete Thomas

Jeff M


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## JayeLID

Hi, Jeff - OK thanks yes I saw the Filter options.

I see that I can go to the "New" activity section and set those Filters.

The thing is....and correct me if I am wrong....there seems to be no way for me to set the "New" section fiters so it exhibits all new posts/responses posted to all threads...the way the "Recent Activity" section used to.

Is that correct ?


VSadmin said:


> See above post as we are sorting out those post from "New Posts"
> 
> We have a tutorial in the FAQ to filter "New Posts".
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> FAQ
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> www.saxontheweb.net
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> 
> 
> You can accomplish this by setting a custom default filter on the new posts page.
> 
> *Step 1 *Navigate to the specific forum you want to focus on and click "Follow Forum".
> 
> 
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> *Step 2* From the navigation, near the upper right-hand corner, click on NEW.
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> This will open a new page of new posts for you. On the new page, click on filters.
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> Now you can adjust the filters to work for your personal preferences, such as the example above and save it as the default. Make sure to click the "filter" button to save it, at the bottom.
> 
> Jeff M


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## VSadmin

@reeddoubler

If you have any questions or comments about the new format please see the thread below and we are more than happy to help.








Community Feedback: We Are Live!


We are excited to announce that we are live on our new forum platform! It's been a long time coming. Let's face it. Sometimes older forum technology lags behind other parts of the internet. Although seeing the same format for a long time is comforting, the member experience shouldn't include...




www.saxontheweb.net





We also have an FAQ here with tutorials below:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net





Jeff M


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## StrongD

I like it! Thanks for the update!


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## KeithL

reeddoubler said:


> I suppose I should thank you, since I have squandered far too much time perusing SOTW this past 20 years or so. But now with your new format, I can happily stop spending any more time on this site! I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish, but "new Coke" comes to mind!


+1 very disappointed in this but I guess it will give me a lot more time to practice. Have no idea where Private Messages went I suspect that function has become part of the Premium Package. I've been a SOTW member since Spring of 1998. Harri gave us a really good run but it looks like the need to monetize everything on earth has arrived here.


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## VSadmin

KeithL said:


> +1 very disappointed in this but I guess it will give me a lot more time to practice. Have no idea where Private Messages went I suspect that function has become part of the Premium Package. I've been a SOTW member since Spring of 1998. Harri gave us a really good run but it looks like the need to monetize everything on earth has arrived here.


Private messages are now called Private Conversations:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net





From the navigation, near the upper right-hand corner, click on your avatar to open the drop-down menu and select "conversations".










Jeff M


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## VSadmin

JayeLID said:


> Hi, Jeff - OK thanks yes I saw the Filter options.
> 
> I see that I can go to the "New" activity section and set those Filters.
> 
> The thing is....and correct me if I am wrong....there seems to be no way for me to set the "New" section fiters so it exhibits all new posts/responses posted to all threads...the way the "Recent Activity" section used to.
> 
> Is that correct ?


If you "Mark all read" under "New Posts" you can then see "View all latest posts" as in the example below.










Jeff M


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## lesacks

KeithL said:


> no idea where Private Messages


Under your avitar, top right; Conversations.

For reading, I really can tell the difference for practical purposes. For posting - from tablets, which I use - it's a vast improvement.


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## Pete Thomas

KeithL said:


> +1 very disappointed in this but I guess it will give me a lot more time to practice. Have no idea where Private Messages went I suspect that function has become part of the Premium Package.


They are still there, click on your account details at the top and see _Conversations_. It's a pain they are hidden away but what can I say?


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## dexdex

You can also fly over someone's nickname on the left of his post, and directly click "Message". On a tablet, just click the nickname. Seriously, are you guys connected with typewriters or pigeons ?


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## sparq

It seems like you took the mobile version and applied it to the desktop version. In the process, you made the desktop version more difficult to navigate than it was.

Changing the background to white makes it harsh on the eyes, and the Dark Mode alternative is too dark.

I'm sure that there are positives to this version, but those two issues affect the entire user experience.


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## VSadmin

sparq said:


> It seems like you took the mobile version and applied it to the desktop version. In the process, you made the desktop version more difficult to navigate than it was.
> 
> Changing the background to white makes it harsh on the eyes, and the Dark Mode alternative is too dark.
> 
> I'm sure that there are positives to this version, but those two issues affect the entire user experience.


Noted

We have another Card View option coming out next month which should help with the contrast and extremes either way greatly.

You can see a quick preview of it here:








Card View - Upcoming Brand New Look!


Hi everyone, As part of our effort to respond to the feedback from the community regarding the "white space" issue on our sites, we are currently working on a brand new look for our sites, a new "Card View" aiming at Fixing the white spacing issue, bringing more focus on the core content of the...




www.onefora.com





Jeff M


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## dexdex

sparq said:


> .......
> 
> Changing the background to white makes it harsh on the eyes, and the Dark Mode alternative is too dark.
> 
> I'm sure that there are positives to this version, but those two issues affect the entire user experience.


Yep, too bright or too dark, I agree.


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## milandro

I suppose there is a learning curve with anything and there is always a certain difficulty to getting used to something new. Which is probably the reason that after so many years I am a little bit in shock, but we’ll see.

I was trying to follow up on the discussion on the conn-o-sax and couldn’t find it in the latest posts and with the search function  , so I tried to get to saxtek and see if I could find it as his “ last started threads) and couldn’t find this by cicking on his avatar, I have no idea if this is me or things have disappeared in the migration


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## milandro

I found the thread, is there a way to edit threads or are we no longer allowed this?


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## VSadmin

milandro said:


> I found the thread, is there a way to edit threads or are we no longer allowed this?


You can edit and we have a tutorial in the FAQ here:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net





Click on the 3 vertical dots to the far right of the timestamp. Select "Edit".










Members have unlimited editing of new posts for the first 24 hours after posting. Up to 10 existing posts (older than 24 hours) may be edited per week. More editing will be allowed as each of those 10 edits expires every 7 days.

Jeff M


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## VSadmin

milandro said:


> I suppose there is a learning curve with anything and there is always a certain difficulty to getting used to something new. Which is probably the reason that after so many years I am a little bit in shock, but we'll see.
> 
> I was trying to follow up on the discussion on the conn-o-sax and couldn't find it in the latest posts and with the search function  , so I tried to get to saxtek and see if I could find it as his " last started threads) and couldn't find this by cicking on his avatar, I have no idea if this is me or things have disappeared in the migration


It can sometimes take 24-48 hours for the search to fully index the community as mention earlier in this thread.

After that you can see threads/replies that users have posted on their profile here:








VSadmin







www.saxontheweb.net





or use Advanced Search here:








Search threads







www.saxontheweb.net





Jeff M


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## milandro

Thanks I will try to familiarize myself with this, by the way, at the moment I am not receiving alerts (for example to your post jeff m) I am not sure if this requires me to go and renew my preferences or this is just a problem (we’ve had those in the past on many occasions), thanks for the patience , this is all really new to me


I’ve found the edit function and I’ve received the first notification


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## VSadmin

milandro said:


> Thanks I will try to familiarize myself with this, by the way, at the moment I am not receiving alerts (for example to your post jeff m) I am not sure if this requires me to go and renew my preferences or this is just a problem (we've had those in the past on many occasions), thanks for the patience , this is all really new to me
> 
> I've found the edit function and I've received the first notification


No problem, here to help.

Check out some of these tutorials might have to tweak your settings.

Following:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net




Click on your avatar near the upper right-hand corner of the site and select "following" from the drop-down menu.










This will bring you to a page where you can choose to view followed discussions, forums, your discussions, and participated discussions.










Notifications and Alerts:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net




A red dot on your avatar near the upper right-hand corner of the site, indicates that you have alerts or new conversations (private messages). When you click on your avatar you will see a number next to Alerts and/or Conversations indicating how many new ones you have. Click on each to view them.










You can adjust your settings for alerts by selecting Account Settings and then Preferences from the left side navigation on the new page.










Scroll down to "Receive a notification when someone&#8230;" and set your preferences.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...**zgpfw37paA0STXteOW5uC-J9NNdOMviGH_NcZAPPaDf
For email alerts, scroll down to Content options and adjust your settings.










Make sure to click Save at the bottom if you make any changes.

Jeff M


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## milandro

Another thing is that the pictures which we’ve uploaded for the for sale items seem to have gone they don’t show and if you click on the link “ the requested page couldn’t be found”, is this transitory or do we have to upload pictures again? Since we are here talking , is there any change about the for sale ads section?🍝 ( dinnertime  )


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## VSadmin

milandro said:


> Another thing is that the pictures which we've uploaded for the for sale items seem to have gone they don't show and if you click on the link " the requested page couldn't be found", is this transitory or do we have to upload pictures again? Since we are here talking , is there any change about the for sale ads section?? ( dinnertime  )


Can you give me an example link where you are seeing this?

We have set up the following rules for the classifieds section:

Only users activate for 6 months and 50 posts will be able to access
We will move it behind the log in so only logged in users can view unless they have the above they can reply.

Jeff M


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## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> I found the thread, is there a way to edit threads or are we no longer allowed this?


Most of that capability is there, but is not in the normal (ie intuitive) place. So there will be a learning curve and expect to do maybe an extra click sometimes to find what you want.

I believe once the search engine is fully indexed I think it should be better than it was in most respects but there are some glaring deficiencies I think.


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## Dr G

I am not loving the fact that we now have the entire right column full of ads - but wait, for the low, low price of $19.99/year, you can make them go away. And what the heck is a "Premium-only" discussion?


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## GaSax

Somewhat similar lay out as other forums I'm on. Even has a like / thumbs up button.

I like it!


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## turf3

Turn every outing into an adventure!


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## VSadmin

Dr G said:


> I am not loving the fact that we now have the entire right column full of ads - but wait, for the low, low price of $19.99/year, you can make them go away. And what the heck is a "Premium-only" discussion?
> 
> View attachment 4287


It is a new private section only open for Premium Members to share and discuss various topics.

Jeff M


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## lostcircuits

I think this is a nice format for non-members but the navigation is, er, 2005 ish. I am getting notifications for messages that I can't access, instead it gets me to the profile of the autor. The dark mode makes it impossible to read JayeLID's messages (yes, some people may actually appreciate this but I don't, then again it is his problem with the font color), in other words, the light mode is too white and the dark mode is too black. Yes, some of the new features like tool bar *at the bottom and Underline* are nice to have but the buttons could be hi-lighted if active. As somebody who ran a forum for many years, I appreciate the work that went into it but I am not sold on the outcome. 
The point system is quite frankly an insult for any serious contributor, most posters here are above the age of 15.


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## Pete Thomas

lostcircuits said:


> The point system is quite frankly an insult for any serious contributor, most posters here are above the age of 15.


I tried to disable this, but was not allowed.

Please note the SOTW admin/mod team you all know and love are not responsible for this. So the previous admin team have now been demoted, I wish we could help with this stuff but sadly we can't.


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## Pete Thomas

lostcircuits said:


> The dark mode makes it impossible to read JayeLID's messages (yes, some people may actually appreciate this but I don't, then again it is his problem with the font color),


Well in theory with a dark mode the colours should be reversed so there is still contrast and legibility


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## dirty

I like the layout and the general functioning of it all. As someone who has, since joining this forum as a teenager 16 years ago, gotten into tech/IT work, I know a lot goes into this, so thank you!

Are old attachments going to be visible eventually? Looking through some older photo threads, it seems like all the attachments are no longer live. Is that a matter of indexing?


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## lostcircuits

Pete Thomas said:


> Well in theory with a dark mode the colours should be reversed so there is still contrast and legibility


Excellent observation!


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## windy aft

this is going to take a lot to get use to, not sure if i am that motivated


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## VSadmin

lostcircuits said:


> I think this is a nice format for non-members but the navigation is, er, 2005 ish. I am getting notifications for messages that I can't access, instead it gets me to the profile of the autor. The dark mode makes it impossible to read JayeLID's messages (yes, some people may actually appreciate this but I don't, then again it is his problem with the font color), in other words, the light mode is too white and the dark mode is too black. Yes, some of the new features like tool bar *at the bottom and Underline* are nice to have but the buttons could be hi-lighted if active. As somebody who ran a forum for many years, I appreciate the work that went into it but I am not sold on the outcome.
> The point system is quite frankly an insult for any serious contributor, most posters here are above the age of 15.


The contrast issues should be sorted with the "Card View" rollout that I mentioned in a previous post HERE.

Note the trophy or point system below will eventually evolve into a reputation system in future updates. The below is a placeholder of the default XF settings. 








Trophies







www.saxontheweb.net





Also, note that we will have a weekly release with new features and bugs fixes and you can monitor the progress on this customized platform here:








Release Notes







www.saxontheweb.net





Jeff M


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## Dr G

VSadmin said:


> It is a new private section only open for Premium Members to share and discuss various topics.
> 
> Jeff M


Could you give an example, please, of a "Premium" topic? What common subforums and threads would now be "Premium"? It seems WRONG that one has to pay to have an opinion or ask a question.


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## VSadmin

Dr G said:


> Could you give an example, please, of a "Premium" topic? What common subforums and threads would now be "Premium"? It seems WRONG that one has to pay to have an opinion or ask a question.


The main benefits of premium are listed in the link you shared above it is just a placeholder that is currently empty for possible expansion as we develop more features on this platform.

So right now there are no examples or expectations for that section.

Jeff M


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## turf3

So, instead of just bringing up the forum, and clicking on "new posts", now I have to click "Full Forum View", then scroll scroll scroll till I get to "New posts" and then finally I get new posts.


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## dexdex

m


Pete Thomas said:


> I tried to disable this, but was not allowed.
> 
> Please note the SOTW admin/mod team you all know and love are not responsible for this. So the previous admin team have now been demoted, I wish we could help with this stuff but sadly we can't.


The question could be: why the hell did we get there ? None of us needs another Facebook.


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## turf3

I'm sorry, it looks like we can't edit a post - yippee. I meant to write

I have to click "Full Forum View", then scroll scroll scroll till I get to "see all new posts" and then finally I get new posts, with less preview of them than I used to have.

Is it still going to log me out when I go from page to page?

It does appear that videos can be played when I'm logged in, which is an improvement.

So, more keystrokes for my most commonly used view, less preview than before, but videos work. Sorry guys, you're -1 so far.


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## turf3

I am glad to see that ads for the new 2019 Toyota Camry are interposed amongst the posts.


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## Pete Thomas

turf3 said:


> So, instead of just bringing up the forum, and clicking on "new posts", now I have to click "Full Forum View", then scroll scroll scroll till I get to "New posts" and then finally I get new posts.


No, just click on New


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## VSadmin

turf3 said:


> So, instead of just bringing up the forum, and clicking on "new posts", now I have to click "Full Forum View", then scroll scroll scroll till I get to "New posts" and then finally I get new posts.


New Posts is at the top of every page and there is an arrow on the right-hand side as you scroll up to bring you to "Home" or to the top of the page.

Tutorial in the FAQ below:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net





Near the upper right-hand corner of the community, you will see navigation icons.

The first icon is for what's new on the site.










Clicking on it, by default, will take you to new unread posts. On that page, you can click on additional tabs as well, such as Popular, if you prefer to view active topics.










Clicking the list icon next to "NEW" will bring you to the full forum listing.










You can also navigate by clicking the 3 vertical dots.










Clicking on your avatar will give you a drop-down menu for all things related to your account.










Jeff M


----------



## dexdex

Ouch... we get profiled quite quickly. 5€ discount on 1st treatment ! Did they check that I play saxophone ? They could get me some free reeds...


----------



## VSadmin

turf3 said:


> I'm sorry, it looks like we can't edit a post - yippee. I meant to write
> 
> I have to click "Full Forum View", then scroll scroll scroll till I get to "see all new posts" and then finally I get new posts, with less preview of them than I used to have.
> 
> Is it still going to log me out when I go from page to page?
> 
> It does appear that videos can be played when I'm logged in, which is an improvement.
> 
> So, more keystrokes for my most commonly used view, less preview than before, but videos work. Sorry guys, you're -1 so far.


Note see above post for "New Posts" tutorial.

You can still edit posts as covered in the tutorial in the FAQ here:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net





Click on the 3 vertical dots to the far right of the timestamp. Select "Edit".










Members have unlimited editing of new posts for the first 24 hours after posting. Up to 10 existing posts (older than 24 hours) may be edited per week. More editing will be allowed as each of those 10 edits expires every 7 days.

Jeff M


----------



## milandro

VSadmin said:


> Can you give me an example link where you are seeing this?
> 
> We have set up the following rules for the classifieds section:
> 
> Only users activate for 6 months and 50 posts will be able to access
> We will move it behind the log in so only logged in users can view unless they have the above they can reply.
> Jeff M


Sure, here I don't see any of the loaded pictures, not in " clear" nor clicking on the link


----------



## skeller047

Just browsing for the last hour - I like the format OK, sure it's different, but no real worries. I have three gripes.

1) *** is "dark mode" for. If I want dark I can set it in my browser... I am a software guy, and I see this in lots of code editors, and now my Mac even has a "dark" theme. Haven't software devs ever read anything about the physiology of the human eye and eye-brain connection? The most relaxing and non-tiring combination is black writing on a light yellow background. Think ink on parchment. If you added this to the forum options it would be great.
2) Spell check. This is a saxophone forum. I should be able to write the word "Selmer" without seeing a red line under it.
3) Lots of threads have links to images that don't work. Can't they be migrated? Will it be fixed eventually? I'm not talking about photos from 10 years ago, but pictures that are quite recent, within the last 2 weeks.

Other than that I'm liking the new look (though ads are bad). The layout is similar to Tapatalk which I use on my tablet, so it's familiar. There will be much grumbling because no-one likes change, but I'm actually kinda glad to get out of the old 2005-Linux/Windows look.


----------



## turf3

VSadmin said:


> Note see above post for "New Posts" tutorial.
> 
> You can still edit posts as covered in the tutorial in the FAQ here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click on the 3 vertical dots to the far right of the timestamp. Select "Edit".


Yeah, because three vertical dots is so much more clearly and universally understood to mean "edit", than the word "edit". Three dots? man, that always means "edit", of COURSE. "Edit"? Why, that could mean practically everything including "convert server hardware directly from mass to energy, at the rate E = mc^2..."

Sheesh, software guys.


----------



## turf3

skeller047 said:


> Haven't software devs ever read anything about the physiology of the human eye and eye-brain connection? The most relaxing and non-tiring combination is black writing on a light yellow background. Think ink on parchment. If you added this to the forum options it would be great...


No, human factors engineering does not apply in the software development world. That's why instead of twisting a knob to turn your car radio up or down you now get to take your eyes off the road and navigate through infotainment menus.


----------



## turf3

I also call your attention to the fact that it's now much more difficult to delete blocks of text from quoted passages so your quote only refers to relevant text.

Normally you'd just highlight the unwanted bits and push "Delete". No more. Now you have to set the cursor at the end of the unwanted text and backspace all through it. (There are probably some other ways; but just highlighting text you want to delete and deleting it, like we've been doing since Windows was introduced in what - 1988? Nope.)


----------



## dirty

turf3 said:


> Normally you'd just highlight the unwanted bits and push "Delete". No more. Now you have to set the cursor at the end of the unwanted text and backspace all through it. (There are probably some other ways; but just highlighting text you want to delete and deleting it, like we've been doing since Windows was introduced in what - 1988? Nope.)


I quoted your reply, highlighted the parts I didn't want and hit backspace to delete them. Once I inserted the quote into the post editor frame, I was able to alter, edit, delete, etc the same way as ever.

While I think the fact that longtime users are having trouble finding basic features is a usability concern, maybe a lot of us should take a day or two to try things out a little before we go complaining about functionality that we don't perceive to be there and _especially_ before approaching our admin team with so much hostility.

And yes, I recognize that I've already lodged a complaint in this thread.

I agree that not everything about the new layout is perfect, but it's not like the old BB was terribly intuitive. We'd just used it forever.


----------



## andre251

I am unsure if anybody else pointed this out already, but the marketplace is visible to everyone. I went to update a for sale post and noticed I was not logged in due to the new forum. So membership requirements to view the marketplace are not in effect. Anyone accessing the website can see for sale ads.
Otherwise, love the new look and especially the dark mode. Thanks!


----------



## Pete Thomas

turf3 said:


> Now you have to set the cursor at the end of the unwanted text and backspace all through it.


No you don't

you just highlight the bit you want to quote and it it to multiquote

then in reply box you just add the quote

it's easier


----------



## turf3

Pete Thomas said:


> No you don't
> 
> you just highlight the bit you want to quote and it it to multiquote
> 
> then in reply box you just add the quote
> 
> it's easier


Well, no, it's not easier. I often cut out sections of someone else's post (providing elision dots, of course) to clarify. Every other forum I use allows you either: 1) after the quoted text is in the reply box, to highlight sections and delete them with the "delete" button; or 2) to highlight sections and crtl C - ctrl V the section into the reply box. In other words, the way it's done in every Windows software for decades now. Why would you want to introduce new different keystroke sequences (that need a tutorial, for crying out loud) when the tried and true ones work just fine?


----------



## Pete Thomas

I suppose I should have just said that I found it easier and quicker. I accept we are all different.


----------



## dirty

turf3 said:


> Every other forum I use allows you either: 1) after the quoted text is in the reply box, to highlight sections and delete them with the "delete" button; or 2) to highlight sections and crtl C - ctrl V the section into the reply box.


You can do both of these.



nobody said:


> you can even make up a fake quote writing BBCode longhand. Or, presumably, paste a real quote.





> or a generic quote block using the "quote" formatting option.












One of the immediately nicest new features in my view was the ability to just highlight text and use it in a quote:









I don't mean to be overly flippant about this, but the issues you are describing around quoting are all possible and mostly seem to be functionally the same, with some additional options added.


----------



## Pete Thomas

dirty said:


> don't mean to be overly flippant about this, but the issues you are describing around quoting are all possible and mostly seem to be functionally the same, with some additional options added.


Yes, this is true. You can either quote and edit the same old way, or the new quicker way. I have to say, whatever else I don't like, this aspect seems better - the best of both worlds.


----------



## Tranechaser

Does this mean the site is a relacquer now?


----------



## Guto

I just posted a For Sale ad in the Sax Misc For Sale section, but it did not come out with the For Sale: grey box badge in the title. How do we ad that feature?


----------



## Pete Thomas

Guto said:


> I just posted a For Sale ad in the Sax Misc For Sale section, but it did not come out with the For Sale: grey box badge in the title. How do we ad that feature?


Normally we'd be able to fix this kind of thing but not any more sadly


----------



## J-Moen

Well I've only been able to check for my phone but so far everything looks great and it is a very welcome upgrade especially for mobile


----------



## mmichel

skeller047 said:


> 1) *** is "dark mode" for. If I want dark I can set it in my browser... I am a software guy, and I see this in lots of code editors, and now my Mac even has a "dark" theme. * Haven't software devs ever read anything about the physiology of the human eye and eye-brain connection?* *The most relaxing and non-tiring combination is black writing on a light yellow background.*


Empirically, the highlighted statement above is incorrect (I can't say much about the "relaxing" part, but that's subjective and I assume that it's pretty variable across individuals) .

FWIW, I'm a vision scientist and an experimental psychologist by profession. I deal with issues of visibility and contrast on a regular basis, and run experiments that require understanding this relationship.

The physiology and psychophysics of vision in fact argue *in favor* of white text on a black background rather than the reverse. The details are a bit more complicated than this but, to simplify things a bit, the visibility of patterns for the human visual system is well described by a measure called "Weber contrast" which is computed as the difference in luminance between the lightest and darkest parts of a pattern, divided by their average luminance (i.e., their spatial average over a region of the display).

This means that all other things being equal (i.e., when the luminance of "black" and "white" regions are kept constant), white text on a black background will have higher perceived contrast and will be easier to read than black text on a white background.


----------



## VSadmin

andre251 said:


> I am unsure if anybody else pointed this out already, but the marketplace is visible to everyone. I went to update a for sale post and noticed I was not logged in due to the new forum. So membership requirements to view the marketplace are not in effect. Anyone accessing the website can see for sale ads.
> Otherwise, love the new look and especially the dark mode. Thanks!


That should be sorted now if not shortly.

Working with the Admin team.

Jeff M


----------



## Guto

Pete Thomas said:


> Normally we'd be able to fix this kind of thing but not any more sadly


Yes, sadly, but I'm mostly asking about how to turn it on in the first place? I did not see any check box for this, so I expected it would come up automatically in the marketplace section. it clearly didn't.


----------



## nvilletele

The google ads with videos etc are particularly annoying, as are the political ads for local area candidates. And I don’t think my avatar shows up correctly but this is sort of a test. 
I am sure I will get used to all the new stuff over time, but I don’t like the new format, especially the ads which seem impossible to avoid by scrolling.


----------



## VSadmin

skeller047 said:


> Just browsing for the last hour - I like the format OK, sure it's different, but no real worries. I have three gripes.
> 
> 1) *** is "dark mode" for. If I want dark I can set it in my browser... I am a software guy, and I see this in lots of code editors, and now my Mac even has a "dark" theme. Haven't software devs ever read anything about the physiology of the human eye and eye-brain connection? The most relaxing and non-tiring combination is black writing on a light yellow background. Think ink on parchment. If you added this to the forum options it would be great.
> 2) Spell check. This is a saxophone forum. I should be able to write the word "Selmer" without seeing a red line under it.
> 3) Lots of threads have links to images that don't work. Can't they be migrated? Will it be fixed eventually? I'm not talking about photos from 10 years ago, but pictures that are quite recent, within the last 2 weeks.
> 
> Other than that I'm liking the new look (though ads are bad). The layout is similar to Tapatalk which I use on my tablet, so it's familiar. There will be much grumbling because no-one likes change, but I'm actually kinda glad to get out of the old 2005-Linux/Windows look.


Some quick replies and glad you are digging the changes overall.

1. Some people do not have that option and we do have card view mentioned earlier in this thread HERE coming out shortly that will address some contrast and formatting issues.

2. The spell-check is part of your browser setting, not our software. You can normally add it to your dictionary by right-clicking on it I believe.

3. Can I get some examples of the links with those broken images?

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

nvilletele said:


> The google ads with videos etc are particularly annoying, as are the political ads for local area candidates. And I don't think my avatar shows up correctly but this is sort of a test.
> I am sure I will get used to all the new stuff over time, but I don't like the new format, especially the ads which seem impossible to avoid by scrolling.


Understood, however, ad revenue is what keeps the paint fresh and the lights on here.

You can always show support for the community by upgrading to premium membership to cut down not the number of ads that are served as well as other features.


https://www.saxontheweb.net/premium-membership/



Jeff M


----------



## Guto

emails notifying of a new post on a thread you subscribe to used to have a link to unsubscribe to that thread alone. I no longer see that. instead there is a unsubscribe link which implies is to all notifications. what gives? what's the easy way to unsubscribe to a thread now?


----------



## BrianMitchellBrody

TOO MANY ADS! Harder to navigate and now one has to pay to play. I resent that more than anything else. Oh well I guess all good things
come to an end. How do I get my membership cancelled?


----------



## Lenny

Why is it that when any website I like decides to "upgrade" to a new format the fonts and general spacing get way bigger& snazzier , but the whole thing is harder to scan than before. You used to be able to see the sub forums listed under each main forum and that helped alot to see where you wanted to go. On first glance now it seems harder to use but glitzier. Is that what they teach people in web school?


----------



## memphissax

I HATE this new look! Changing the look to this was an ASININE move for sure!


----------



## ZootTheSim

The list of instruments from my profile seems to have gone missing. There's a new field, labeled "Sax Information," which is blank. 

Anyone else have this problem? And can I have my old list retrieved to populate this field?


----------



## mmichel

VSadmin said:


> 3. Can I get some examples of the links with those broken images?


Here's a thread I started a couple of months ago, in which none of my attached images are visible or accessible by clicking on the links.


----------



## mmichel

ZootTheSim said:


> The list of instruments from my profile seems to have gone missing. There's a new field, labeled "Sax Information," which is blank.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem? And can I have my old list retrieved to populate this field?


+1

Same here.


----------



## mmichel

My "latest activity" was also apparently wiped clean after the port, so I'm having trouble finding posts I've made more recently. I'm sure that there are more recent attached photos that have also disappeared.

Edit: Here's a post from 3 days ago in which the attached image is no longer available/viewable.


----------



## memphissax

mmichel said:


> My "latest activity" was also apparently wiped clean after the port, so I'm having trouble finding posts I've made more recently. I'm sure that there are more recent attached photos that have also disappeared.


Yep hate that too!

Seriously, web designer, YOU messed up what WAS a great thing! You're ASININE!!!


----------



## ZootTheSim

mmichel said:


> +1
> 
> Same here.


And as I recall, mmichel, you had some very nice horns! But I can't confirm my recollection, because they've disappeared....


----------



## ZootTheSim

You can't just click on the latest post in a given thread anymore from the list of threads. You can click on the last page of the thread, but then you need to scroll down to see the latest post. That's annoying.

EDIT: Once you click on the thread, you can click the "Jump to Latest" button to get to the last post. It's an extra step, though not a deal-breaker.


----------



## ZootTheSim

When I selected some other Filters in addition to "Unread Content," it no longer showed me any threads at all. Seems like a glitch.


----------



## Guto

Dr G said:


> I am not loving the fact that we now have the entire right column full of ads - but wait, for the low, low price of $19.99/year, you can make them go away. And what the heck is a "Premium-only" discussion?


$20/yr for "REDUCED-ad experience" ? How about zero ads?
Here is a free solution to switch off the right column: just slide your browser window to the right till it falls off the right side of your screen .


----------



## bandmommy

Nope, nope, nope. 
Ads every other post is complete bull****. 
Pay to post is complete bull****. 
Change happens but these changes are complete bull****. 
You guys took a good thing and fecked it up..


----------



## Guto

ALERT: as with any new site service you may join I urge everyone to browse all of your account settings make sure your privacy choices are set to meet your needs. In my case they did not reflect choices I had made in the previous site at all. Also note the don’t sell my info option linked to at the bottom of this page. Make your own choices !

Honestly it sucks we were not warned to review our privacy choices before re-activating our account in this new platform.


----------



## lostcircuits

mmichel said:


> Empirically, the highlighted statement above is incorrect (I can't say much about the "relaxing" part, but that's subjective and I assume that it's pretty variable across individuals) .
> 
> FWIW, I'm a vision scientist and an experimental psychologist by profession. I deal with issues of visibility and contrast on a regular basis, and run experiments that require understanding this relationship.
> 
> The physiology and psychophysics of vision in fact argue *in favor* of white text on a black background rather than the reverse. The details are a bit more complicated than this but, to simplify things a bit, the visibility of patterns for the human visual system is well described by a measure called "Weber contrast" which is computed as the difference in luminance between the lightest and darkest parts of a pattern, divided by their average luminance (i.e., their spatial average over a region of the display).
> 
> This means that all other things being equal (i.e., when the luminance of "black" and "white" regions are kept constant), white text on a black background will have higher perceived contrast and will be easier to read than black text on a white background.


I am almost certain our paths have crossed at one of the ARVO meetings, even though the only time I ventured into psychophysics was when I was involved in suppressive rod-cone interactions (SRCI)


----------



## mmichel

lostcircuits said:


> I am almost certain our paths have crossed at one of the ARVO meetings, even though the only time I ventured into psychophysics was when I was involved in suppressive rod-cone interactions (SRCI)


We'll have to chat sometime.

Unfortunately, because I joined the field after VSS split off from ARVO (and because my work is mostly basic science), I've never attended the main ARVO meeting. I mostly attend VSS (I've attended VSS nearly every year since about 2004), but I also occasionally attend the OSA Fall Vision Meeting, the SfN Meeting, the Envision Conference, and COSYNE.


----------



## lostcircuits

mmichel said:


> We'll have to chat sometime.
> 
> Unfortunately, because I joined the field after VSS split off from ARVO (and because my work is mostly basic science), I've never attended the main ARVO meeting. I mostly attend VSS (I've attended VSS nearly every year since about 2004), but I also occasionally attend the OSA Fall Vision Meeting, the SfN Meeting, the Envision Conference, and COSYNE.


I quit the field in 2000 after realizing that my NIH grant was just enough to starve me but I was working in basic visual science since '84. Sometimes I miss the work but after everything turned into molecular biology only and I happened to get a decent offer from the semiconductor industry (I used to work on Alzheimers in a joint project with Psychiatry and that's how I got into the memory and storage industry - pun intended), I packed my bags, left my faculty position and started a new life. I still maintain contact with some of my old peers but they are getting pretty thin. I think I was the first to describe the currently still valid mechanism for center-surround inhibition and contrast vision and I was crucified at the time but 30 years later, who even remembers such things....


----------



## click

reeddoubler said:


> I suppose I should thank you, since I have squandered far too much time perusing SOTW this past 20 years or so. But now with your new format, I can happily stop spending any more time on this site! I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish, but "new Coke" comes to mind!


Yes. I do not suppose there is much chance of me sticking around here any further.
I may be surprised, but the whole thing looks bleak and difficult. I get enough of that without looking for more.


----------



## click

Thanks, everybody, for all of the support and information you have provided for me over the years.


----------



## VSadmin

Guto said:


> emails notifying of a new post on a thread you subscribe to used to have a link to unsubscribe to that thread alone. I no longer see that. instead there is a unsubscribe link which implies is to all notifications. what gives? what's the easy way to unsubscribe to a thread now?


You can adjust your notifications and followed threads at the links below:

Settings:








Preferences







www.saxontheweb.net





Followed threads:








Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net





Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

BrianMitchellBrody said:


> TOO MANY ADS! Harder to navigate and now one has to pay to play. I resent that more than anything else. Oh well I guess all good things
> come to an end. How do I get my membership cancelled?


You can send an email to Contact Us to remove your account.








Contact Us







www.saxontheweb.net





Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

mmichel said:


> My "latest activity" was also apparently wiped clean after the port, so I'm having trouble finding posts I've made more recently. I'm sure that there are more recent attached photos that have also disappeared.
> 
> Edit: Here's a post from 3 days ago in which the attached image is no longer available/viewable.





memphissax said:


> Yep hate that too!
> 
> Seriously, web designer, YOU messed up what WAS a great thing! You're ASININE!!!


It could take 24-48 hours for the search to finish indexing and populate the "Latest Activity" as mentioned earlier in this thread.

I will look into the images with the team in the morning.

Jeff M


----------



## GaSax

What's with all the whining? 

Everything is in a different format and yes it may take a short time to get use it. I'm sure most of you will like it if you just give it a chance.


As for the ads... I'm actually seeing less ads now. Don't know how big of a difference it makes but I'm on my Android phone.

Other improvements I've noticed is I'm not getting that Google billionth user award pop up BS any more. Thank you! Also on the other platform I would be in the middle of reading a post and it would suddenly jump to the very top of the thread. Don't know if it was the Android phone web browser or what was causing that. But so far so good with the change.


----------



## VSadmin

ZootTheSim said:


> When I selected some other Filters in addition to "Unread Content," it no longer showed me any threads at all. Seems like a glitch.


Had you already marked all forums read?

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

ZootTheSim said:


> You can't just click on the latest post in a given thread anymore from the list of threads. You can click on the last page of the thread, but then you need to scroll down to see the latest post. That's annoying.
> 
> EDIT: Once you click on the thread, you can click the "Jump to Latest" button to get to the last post. It's an extra step, though not a deal-breaker.


Note we have a tutorial in the FAQ for this:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net















Clicking the thread title will take you to where you left off, the 1st unread post.
Clicking the timestamp below the title will take you to the 1st post of the thread.
Clicking the timestamp above the last poster user takes you to the last (newest) post.
Jeff M


----------



## GaSax

Here is some cheese to go with the whine...
🧀


----------



## bandmommy

GaSax said:


> As for the ads... I'm actually seeing less ads now. Don't know how big of a difference it makes but I'm on my Android phone.


Lucky you!!! I'm averaging 3 ads stuck in between replies per page on my Android phone plus one at the bottom. 
I don't have 'internet' and only access the site using my phone and mobile data.


----------



## Tranechaser

Can we go back to the old marketplace rules as part of the grand overhaul?


----------



## Tranechaser

Oh man, after about 15 minutes I don’t think I can handle the pop up ads anymore. And why am I seeing ads for lingerie and herpes medication? You must think my life is a lot more exciting that it really is....


----------



## GaSax

bandmommy said:


> Lucky you!!! I'm averaging 3 ads stuck in between replies per page on my Android phone plus one at the bottom.
> I don't have 'internet' and only access the site using my phone and mobile data.


Right now I only see one ad for exercise equipment and a small banner at the bottom (like you see on the free apps).

There is a blank space above but I'm not seeing an ad in it.


----------



## dexdex

Ads aren’t that smart.... they didn’t check I switched to dark mode (it is still night here).


----------



## GaSax

Tranechaser said:


> Oh man, after about 15 minutes I don't think I can handle the pop up ads anymore. And why am I seeing ads for lingerie and herpes medication? You must think my life is a lot more exciting that it really is....


LOL! Someone been looking up info related to that stuff. You might want to ask if the kids or spouse are OK and if they have something to tell you.


----------



## Saxaholic

Not a fan of the changes. Would have been better to keep the same appearance and functionality but with new tech backing it up.

Been a member since the late 90s when it was on the old old site...kinda figured when Harri sold the site it would go this way sooner or later.

I'll give it a shot but I admit it doesn't give me any motivation to bother.


----------



## ZootTheSim

VSadmin said:


> Had you already marked all forums read?
> 
> Jeff M


Not that I'm aware of.


----------



## malteof

I understand people got used to the old forum software, but this is so much better. Don't get me wrong, there are still lots of issues with this version, but the previous one was ancient. 

I didn't know people still see ads in their browsers 🧐


----------



## B Flat

I can’t find the “exit enhanced view” button?
Please tell me there is one.


----------



## Bkenes

I agree with many of you that this looks more difficult than before. I do hope though that you don't leave just because of the update. The forum will die otherwise. We need to give it a try and hopefully get used to it. I will miss the old SOTW for sure!

BTW: VSadmin - I think this is the time for you to update some of the marketplace functions! Let's make the threads easily marked "SOLD". That would be a nice but simple function.


----------



## Hassles

things to consider - the only things of value here is what we've said and what we are yet to say. We "collectively" are the bricks and mortar. The seemingly rudimentary and at times crude Brave browser "may" suit some of you.


----------



## malteof

Hassles said:


> things to consider - the only things of value here is what we've said and what we are yet to say. We "collectively" are the bricks and mortar. The seemingly rudimentary and at times crude Brave browser "may" suit some of you.


Why is that?


----------



## malteof

Btw - something that needs fixing is that we can't reply to our own posts in the marketplace. This means we can't update them when we've sold something! @VSadmin


----------



## Pete Thomas

malteof said:


> Btw - something that needs fixing is that we can't reply to our own posts in the marketplace. This means we can't update them when we've sold something! @VSadmin


They have been made aware of this


----------



## dexdex

After a couple of hours, using a 27' desktop running Firefox, an 8' iPad Mini running Safari and an iPhone SE2 running Safari, a very brief comment.
On desktop and smartphone, the migration is a smooth move. It needs some adaptation, but nothing which really upsets me.
On the iPad Mini however, the experience is rather bad, specially in dark mode. The ads on the right side are WAYYYS too intrusive, often with white background. Seems to be the poor man's device. More than an ethical or philosophic problem, it is simply an ergonomic issue. Probably a matter of proportions. En français, c'est un affront, eine Frechheit. Dunno if anyone can/wants to work on this.


----------



## milandro

I think there is a lot to be desired from the marketplace (remember that all the pictures of previous ads seem to have disappeared) we also need to be able to update things and I was under the impression that this revolution would have had some impacts on the marketplace and, if any, it seems to be even more restricted that it ever was, the only improvement is that the search engine, with some confusions, now, seems to be searching the for sale area too (it didn’t before) but makes interpretations so SALE gets confused with Sal (Nistico) , for example. One of the problems with the marketplace is not technical though, but practical. Those of us with few ads are overwhelmed by those whom publish ads , continuously, almost daily (and sometimes more than a few in a day) so that there is literally a mountain of ads to sieve through (unelss one is really motivated to do so and people shopping aren’t always). More than one ce I’ve been asked about my ads from people whom couldn’t find them although admittedly I only have a few things for sale, still , mostly buried deep down.


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> on the marketplace and, if any, it seems to be even more restricted that it ever was,


I have made them aware to fix this so people can update their ads


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> SALE gets confused with Sal (Nistico) , for example


try boolean operators
May need + instead of _and_

I haven't tested this yet so I'm just guessing.


----------



## malteof

Also, what's up with this subforum? Sax on the Web Forum


----------



## malteof

And these tags, how do you use those?


----------



## Pete Thomas

malteof said:


> Also, what's up with this subforum? Sax on the Web Forum


What do you mean, what's up with it?


----------



## milandro

I am not so sure why , but I have tried to publish a for sale ad (now called discussion?) Sax on the Web Forum and after publishing it still doesn't show in what's new or the forum, am I missing something?


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> I am not so sure why , but I have tried to publish a for sale ad (now called discussion?) Sax on the Web Forum and after publishing it still doesn't show in what's new or the forum, am I missing something?


It's there. Check your filter settings above the posts


----------



## lesacks

milandro said:


> after publishing it still doesn't show in what's new


I'd guess if you write a new post, you've read it; so isn't new to you... Maybe the new and old software set a post as read differently?


----------



## Pete Thomas

lesacks said:


> Maybe the new and old software set a post as read differently?


See above. You set your own preferred filter settings for new posts. Read, unread etc.


----------



## malteof

Pete Thomas said:


> What do you mean, what's up with it?


Sorry, wasn't so clear. What is it for? There are some ads posted in there, but I would've thought we use the subforums here for ads.


----------



## malteof

Also, links are really, really hard to see with this style! Can we maybe have them underlined or some other colour?


----------



## Pete Thomas

malteof said:


> Sorry, wasn't so clear. What is it for? There are some ads posted in there, but I would've thought we use the subforums here for ads.





malteof said:


> Also, links are really, really hard to see with this style! Can we maybe have them underlined or some other colour?


I agree it's odd. I hope someone can fix those things.

It's strange links are underlined in the dark style.


----------



## pontius

I feel good about this. I've only been on here for an hour and I already racked up like 4 trophies, and somebody likes me.


----------



## pontius

MSOTWGA


----------



## milandro

indeed, saxophonists of the whole world....DIVIDE (each into small groups )


----------



## milandro

Pete Thomas said:


> It's there. Check your filter settings above the posts
> 
> View attachment 4353


Thanks, indeed it was a filter matter , I know everything is new but intuitive, this is not


----------



## allenlowe

well, if your intention was to decrease congestion by scaring people away from the forum, you will probably succeed. You have managed to take a good, graphically clean site and make it into something that looks like the inside of the mind of a mad man. It's a mess.


----------



## malteof

allenlowe said:


> well, if your intention was to decrease congestion by scaring people away from the forum, you will probably succeed. You have managed to take a good, graphically clean site and make it into something that looks like the inside of the mind of a mad man. It's a mess.


A bit dramatic, I think you'll get used to it


----------



## Hassles

malteof said:


> Why is that?


yours to explore - I say nothing more


----------



## GaSax

Seeing some more ads today but still not that bad.

Just checked the Full Size Bronco forum. They've updated it since I was last there and have the same exact layout as this one.


----------



## svCompassRose

In this thread ( Why is the Otto Link Slant Signature considered THE HR... ) towards the bottom of the first page a member posted this link ( Sax on the Web Forum ) to another discussion. Clicking on the link or copying and pasting it into a browser opens a page of topics "Recommended For You" rather than the actual thread. The thread I wanted to see isn't listed in the results.

Also, clicking on links to pictures opens to a message that the page can't be found.

And finally: I GOT A TROPHY! I'M SO EXCITED......not.

I appreciate the effort and intent that went into migrating to a new platform, but between the game show approach to getting points for reactions to posts and the concept of premium forums I'm a bit turned off.

I lurked here for a few years after I took up the sax and finally joined when I felt like I knew enough to contribute to discussions. I love the wealth of information and the free flowing discussions of topics from basics to the theoretical and esoteric. There was a lot to like about the old software and I hope that this platform can be fine tuned to keep what worked well in the old and take advantage of what is available in the new.


----------



## milandro

At first there is the shock, I was there too, and then with a little help from Vs Staff Jeff M and my forum friends here , I am NOW beginning to overcome the first shocking knee jerk reaction.

I am not belittling the difficulties and perhaps the disappointment of those who find this overwhelming and perhaps unnecessarily intricate, but frankly speaking I think that the external features may be of a minor importance in conparison with issues that are more fundamental to the structure and fiber of this forum.

There are other more fundamental issues that are , to my knowledge , left unchanged.


----------



## Guto

These flashing bright, often white ads defeat the benefits of dark mode. They actually become 10x more annoying in dark mode, especially on a tablet.


----------



## JayeLID

VSadmin said:


> If you "Mark all read" under "New Posts" you can then see "View all latest posts" as in the example below.
> 
> Jeff M


OK, thanks for the reply.

I think we are misunderstanding each other a bit, but I think I have my answer also.

I did what you suggested, and indeed by doing that only the latest posts come up. BUT my question/point was more towards the apparent fact that:

~ on the old version, when one went to "What's New" or "Recent Activity".....the page they were rewarded with was a page which literally showed the *latest post *members had made, which included the beginning quote of what they had written....

~ on the new version, apparently this no longer exists. Now, what the viewer can see is the *particular thread *where the post has been made...and then to the right, who made that last post to the thread, and at what time....we cannot see the beginning of the quotes any longer...

So, what you (we) get now is:

a *"list of threads which have recently received new posts"....* basically....

....which is, if I may say....not an improvement over the prior version's "Latest Activity"/"What's New" function....but rather a downgrade.

Just my feedback on it....


----------



## turf3

Once again an "update" ends up requiring more keystrokes and user customization to access less information more slowly.


And sometimes I can't even scroll within a thread.


----------



## hakukani

To those that like to use colored fonts--

I'm using dark mode, because it's easier on my eyes. Anything that doesn't lend contrast is very difficult to read.


----------



## milandro

I have managed, by altering the filters, as uggested by Pete Thomas, to have the what’s new section work exactly as it did before

try to “ uncheck” all the boxes when in what’s new and on he filters menu (left hand side)


----------



## JayeLID

Dr G said:


> And what the heck is a "Premium-only" discussion?


Ahhh I know the answer to THAT one: The exclusive member priveleges include getting insulted...but the insults are premium, top-notch, cutting, clever, incisive ones ....all the time....


----------



## turf3

turf3 said:


> Once again an "update" ends up requiring more keystrokes and user customization to access less information more slowly.
> 
> And sometimes I can't even scroll within a thread.


I'm trying to respond to a post in the thread "1939 Buescher Aristocrat" and when I go to that thread it goes to the bottom, won't let me scroll up to the post of interest, won't let me type in the box, nothing nada zip zilch, just sits there - if I try different scrolling techniques the best I get is some vertical vibration.

On the other hand, you can see that I'm not having the same problem with this thread.


----------



## JayeLID

milandro said:


> I have managed, by altering the filters, as uggested by Pete Thomas, to have the what's new section work exactly as it did before


Can you please PM me with instructions on how you did that ? I'd appreciate it greatly, Grazie


----------



## Pete Thomas

JayeLID said:


> ....which is, if I may say....not an improvement over the prior version's "Latest Activity"/"What's New" function....but rather a downgrade.


Is this it?









Latest activity







www.saxontheweb.net







milandro said:


> I have managed, by altering the filters, as uggested by Pete Thomas, to have the what's new section work exactly as it did before





JayeLID said:


> Can you please PM me with instructions on how you did that ? I'd appreciate it greatly, Grazie


milandro may have been discussing the new posts, as opposed to latest activity.


----------



## turf3

milandro said:


> I have managed, by altering the filters, as uggested by Pete Thomas, to have the what's new section work exactly as it did before
> 
> try to " uncheck" all the boxes when in what's new and on he filters menu (left hand side)


Why should users have to do this additional work to achieve what was out of the box before this "update"?

Why is it a significant amount of time when I want to reply to a second post in a thread, that my reply ends up including all the text of my previous reply to a different post?

Why did you tell me I could highlight text and push "delete" to have it go away, when I had just told you it doesn't work? And will you repeat that statement after I just now proved it false again? And it is NOT TRUE that you can highlight unwanted text and hit backspace to have it go away, either. Nope, you gotta put the cursor at the end of the unwanted text and backspace slowly over the whole block of unwanted text.

Why about a third of the time I push "Post reply" and nothing happens, nada zilch zip?

And finally, why should I spend hours customizing an entertainment website to make simple matters like typing, copying/pasting, and deleting work like all other Windows products work OUT OF THE BOX?

Sorry, but I'm grading the "upgrade" at a D minus for user interface and functionality. I can't comment on matters like improved security.


----------



## milandro

I have indeed discussed the new post (sorry ) , but I think that, in essence this filter thing applies to a lot of things that we aren't seeing as we are used to.

This filter function is, to me a new thing , which I believe, in time, will become useful, but since it didn't exist (that I am aware of) before, it come set in a way that may not correspond to what we were used to before.

@turf3 
I understand the discomfort but this is a new platform , its introduction was welcomed by may (especially those who prefer mobile divices) there is no way to have something new staying old. I know it feels bad, how many times have I cursed one program or other which all of a sudden forced me to learn something new when I didn't want to? The same goes for computers or phones ( just the other day my wife asks me something about her Iphone while I use a Samsung which operates in a totally different way). I am sorry to say (and I am not patronizing anyone here) that things like this will happen more and more the more we live, they change and not always in a way that is designed to make our technology jumps painless.

s!


----------



## Pete Thomas

turf3 said:


> Why should users have to do this additional work to achieve what was out of the box before this "update"?


It wasn't exactly out of the box. I actually customised the old site to work like that following peoples suggestions about new posts vs recent posts.



turf3 said:


> Why did you tell me I could highlight text and push "delete" to have it go away, when I had just told you it doesn't work? y.


I think milandro would have told you that because it works for him, as it does for me. (I have just done it for the quote above) So this sounds like a browser incompatibility issue.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not defending that, I'm just saying it isn't like that for everyone. Nor can I fix it  only the VS tech team can do that.


----------



## turf3

Yes, Pete, I understand you can't do anything about it but pass on the discontent.


----------



## VSadmin

B Flat said:


> I can't find the "exit enhanced view" button?
> Please tell me there is one.


There is only one view (dark/Light) currently with "Card View" coming out in Q4 2020 mentioned earlier in the thread.

"Enhanced mobile view" has been removed.

Jeff M


----------



## Pete Thomas

turf3 said:


> Yes, Pete, I understand you can't do anything about it but pass on the discontent.


I think @VSadmin is monitoring this thread, but just in case please note for any bug reports it's best to tag/mention them directly with the @ followed ny username as I just did (It should autocomplete) . Then it goes straight to them who can pass it to the tech team. Cuts out one of the middlemen.

But if it's a browser bug, it's always advisable to let them know your details, e.g. Computer, operating system version and browser version. I'd also recommend if you can trying it on a different browser if that's possible. I am perplexed though because it does seem a strange bug. I've been troubleshooting websites and ner heard of that one (ie backspace/delete not clearing a highlighted selection)

Meanwhile I would recommend you try the +quote system, I find it a lot quicker when there are various different bits of a post you want to quote and reply to separately. If that gives the same issue it would be interesting to know.


----------



## VSadmin

Bkenes said:


> I agree with many of you that this looks more difficult than before. I do hope though that you don't leave just because of the update. The forum will die otherwise. We need to give it a try and hopefully get used to it. I will miss the old SOTW for sure!
> 
> BTW: VSadmin - I think this is the time for you to update some of the marketplace functions! Let's make the threads easily marked "SOLD". That would be a nice but simple function.


We could add prefixes for the threads if @Pete Thomas and the team wants.

Jeff M


----------



## ralph lh

Not impressed but I'll give this some time. This format is what I see on another forum that I participate in and it's been a couple of months or more on that one. Don't like the start page, gives me a whole bunch of threads I have no interest in. Conversations seem to stretch way too long due to white space. And, why can't we get a 'dislike' button?


----------



## Pete Thomas

VSadmin said:


> We could add prefixes for the threads if @Pete Thomas and the team wants.


It's more important what the members want . Where there used to be preixes so there should still be prefixes


----------



## J-Moen

Any ETA on the marketplace fix? I would very much like to drop the prices on some stuff I'm selling lol.


----------



## allenlowe

malteof said:


> A bit dramatic, I think you'll get used to it


Honestly, I think I am under-stating it. Yes, we will all get used to it, but there is no question it was much easier
to read and navigate before.


----------



## milandro

jmoen3 said:


> Any ETA on the marketplace fix? I would very much like to drop the prices on some stuff I'm selling lol.


It appears that nobody can answer or continue his or her own advert in order, for example to lower the asking price, hopefully @VSadmin Jeff M will be able to come up with a solution.

But Frankly, we need to re-evaluate the entire marketplace, not only this


----------



## J-Moen

milandro said:


> It appears that nobody can answer or continue his or her own advert in order, for example to lower the asking price, hopefully @VSadmin Jeff M will be able to come up with a solution.
> 
> But Frankly, we need to re-evaluate the entire marketplace, not only this


Indeed. Maybe time for a new thread for the reevaluation of the Marketplace. Could be beneficial. However, the last time I saw this, it was mostly just disagreements between those who use it frequently, and those who use it sparingly - and then there is the whole debate of commenting from other posters removed that was fairly controversial here


----------



## Pete Kelly

Am looking forward to navigating through the new format. Cheers from Hong Kong.


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> It appears that nobody can answer or continue his or her own advert in order, for example to lower the asking price, hopefully @VSadmin Jeff M will be able to come up with a solution.


This is really really important, maybe should have its own thread as a real issue as opposed to being in general feedback.


----------



## VSadmin

jmoen3 said:


> Any ETA on the marketplace fix? I would very much like to drop the prices on some stuff I'm selling lol.





milandro said:


> It appears that nobody can answer or continue his or her own advert in order, for example to lower the asking price, hopefully @VSadmin Jeff M will be able to come up with a solution.
> 
> But Frankly, we need to re-evaluate the entire marketplace, not only this


Still looking into this but for now you can edit your first post in the thread to update prices.

Click on the 3 vertical dots to the far right of the timestamp. Select "Edit".










Members have unlimited editing of new posts for the first 24 hours after posting. Up to 10 existing posts (older than 24 hours) may be edited per week. More editing will be allowed as each of those 10 edits expires every 7 days.

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> This is really really important, maybe should have its own thread as a real issue as opposed to being in general feedback.


Looking at that with the team now will reply in the Admin section.

Jeff M


----------



## malteof

allenlowe said:


> Honestly, I think I am under-stating it. Yes, we will all get used to it, but there is no question it was much easier
> to read and navigate before.


I don't doubt you feel that way, it's just that I feel it's the opposite. Some things need to be sorted out still, but almost everything is better now. Did you try uploading a picture now? A million times easier compared to before. And notifications are way better.

I hope you'll get used to it and like it more than before!


----------



## Pete Thomas

VSadmin said:


> Up to 10 existing posts (older than 24 hours) may be edited per week. More editing will be allowed as each of those 10 edits expires every 7 days.


Does this mean they can also edit a thread title, so a reduction in price can be shown more obviously than just a post edit?


----------



## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> Does this mean they can also edit a thread title, so a reduction in price can be shown more obviously than just a post edit?


I do believe they should be able to.

Jeff M


----------



## Pete Thomas

malteof said:


> Some things need to be sorted out still, but almost everything is better now. Did you try uploading a picture now? A million times easier compared to before. And notifications are way better.


Indeed we need to look at pros versus cons. It's very easy to have a gut reaction to change without taking time to check out the bigger picture. Behind the scenes I have been very vocal to make sure (AFAIK) this is not disruptive of SOTW members' previous experience as I'm sure @VSadmin will verify how annoying I am. To put it bluntly we are probably a complete PITA for them.

But still take some time to find that maybe the pros do outweigh the cons.


----------



## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> Indeed we need to look at pros versus cons. It's very easy to have a gut reaction to change without taking time to check out the bigger picture. Behind the scenes I have been very vocal to make sure (AFAIK) this is not disruptive of SOTW members' previous experience as I'm sure @VSadmin will verify how annoying I am. To put it bluntly we are probably a complete PITA for them.
> 
> But still take some time to find that maybe the pros do outweigh the cons.


We will get this sorted it will just take a bit of time.

Not a PITA as it is our job to work on trying to provide the best member experience that we can.

Jeff M


----------



## andre251

VSadmin said:


> 3. Can I get some examples of the links with those broken images?
> 
> Jeff M


My for sale thread from just around 3-4 days ago has photos completely missing from the first post and photos that do not work in the second post.
Link:








Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net


----------



## Pete Thomas

andre251 said:


> My for sale thread from just around 3-4 days ago has photos completely missing from the first post and photos that do not work in the second post.
> Link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sax on the Web Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net


Confirmed big issue @VSadmin

Huge issue


----------



## VSadmin

andre251 said:


> My for sale thread from just around 3-4 days ago has photos completely missing from the first post and photos that do not work in the second post.
> Link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sax on the Web Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net





Pete Thomas said:


> Confirmed big issue @VSadmin
> 
> Huge issue


.

10-4, We will look into this one also but will probably not see any action until next week.

Tickted -VE-4285

Jeff M


----------



## turf3

What happened to "Activity Stream"? "New posts" only shows threads that were updated since my last viewing.


----------



## turf3

Now none of the threads allows me to scroll.


----------



## lesacks

turf3 said:


> Now none of the threads allows me to scroll.


Sounds frustrating!
Have you tried the old "clear site data" thing in your browser?


----------



## notes_norton

OK The new forum is MUCH _faster, _I like the new look, and although I'm a little lost, I'll eventually find my way around, I have a question

Is there anyway to find the last read post on a thread I'm following?

I like to read every post since the last time I visited a particular thread.

Thanks,
Notes


----------



## dirty

turf3 said:


> Now none of the threads allows me to scroll.


Turf, I"m not sure if you've mentioned this, but what browser (and version) are you using? What device and operating system? Any browser extensions?

It seems like the issues you are having with quoting and scrolling are different from other people's issues.

Not involved with development or administration of this forum in any way, but I've done my fair share of technical support in the past and those are the first questions I'd want to know the answers to.


----------



## memphissax

PROOF that this change is a FAILURE!


----------



## B Flat

malteof said:


> I understand people got used to the old forum software, but this is so much better. Don't get me wrong, there are still lots of issues with this version, but the previous one was ancient.
> 
> I didn't know people still see ads in their browsers ?


Strange thing is, I never saw the adds before but now they're plastered across bottom half of screen.


----------



## GaSax

For those that are having problems or issues with the contrast. Have y'all checked to see if you have a blue light filter option on your device? On my phone I keep it on all the time because my eyes are sensitive to bright light. For me the white background appears to be slightly tan or brown tint to it. Like the old school incandescent bulb.

Just checked my work laptop in the car and it has a setting in it for "night light" and it appears to do the same thing. Glad I found it! Even with the brightness level on the lowest setting it's still a little too bright at night.


----------



## Saxaholic

The adds and pop-ups alone make it not worth it. Not something I'm willing to deal with, at least. Someone above said it best. More effort for less accessibility and info and add in the "pay to play" BS. No thanks.


----------



## ZootTheSim

Still having filter issues. If I select one filter it works, but if I select all filters, the search returns no posts at all. Maybe there's an "AND" where there should be an "OR"?


----------



## skeller047

mmichel said:


> Empirically, the highlighted statement above is incorrect (I can't say much about the "relaxing" part, but that's subjective and I assume that it's pretty variable across individuals) .
> 
> FWIW, I'm a vision scientist and an experimental psychologist by profession. I deal with issues of visibility and contrast on a regular basis, and run experiments that require understanding this relationship.
> 
> The physiology and psychophysics of vision in fact argue *in favor* of white text on a black background rather than the reverse. The details are a bit more complicated than this but, to simplify things a bit, the visibility of patterns for the human visual system is well described by a measure called "Weber contrast" which is computed as the difference in luminance between the lightest and darkest parts of a pattern, divided by their average luminance (i.e., their spatial average over a region of the display).
> 
> This means that all other things being equal (i.e., when the luminance of "black" and "white" regions are kept constant), white text on a black background will have higher perceived contrast and will be easier to read than black text on a white background.


Regarding the black-on-light-yellow, I have used this combination for many years and find it the least tiring. I went and did some research (well.... Googling  ) and also visited the site where I first heard of this combination. Turns out that black-on-white (or vice-versa) is the highest contrast setting possible. So I guess in a way you are right. But the point needs to be made that the background overwhelming the foreground is a bad thing, and a very bright white starts to bother my eyes after a while. (The light yellow background does not, so much.).

The first place I heard of this was at a seminar given by Edward Tufte, who is a noted data analysis and display guru. A page on his site gives his thoughts on the subject. Interesting that he recommended a black background as a good starting point for web sites, but himself chooses black on yellow. He explains why:




__





Edward Tufte forum: Web site color choice






www.edwardtufte.com





I also spoke with a very experienced UX designer at my work, and he reiterated that black-on-white is considered the most readable for a website. He made the point that in the real world, black ink on parchment might be a better choice, but in the real world we look at things from a greater distance and often with less ambient light.

I think that for web sites, white (or light colored text) on black (dark) background is easier on the eye. In a site like this, where ads pop up all the time (and are often very bright) end up overwhelming when on a black background.

Don't want to make a big deal of this (even though I'm typing a long message!), we can continue this in another thread if you want. I still would like the option to directly control the color combinations here, and man i hate dark mode!!!!! (I guess that proves I'm an old man....)


----------



## nvilletele

Oh powers that be, please tell me: Why would I “have insufficient privileges to reply” to my own for sale ad in the classifieds? Am I no longer permitted to respond in my own for sale thread?


----------



## J-Moen

nvilletele said:


> Oh powers that be, please tell me: Why would I "have insufficient privileges to reply" to my own for sale ad in the classifieds? Am I no longer permitted to respond in my own for sale thread?


It's been addressed by myself and multiple others. Admins are working a fix. No ETA as of yet. Your post can be edited currently, which is the workaround provided. However, it will not bump the post.


----------



## neutrino

@turf3

I had no (real) problem quoting your text and highlighting some text and deleting it (in the quoted text below I have struck it out rather than deleting it, to make it more obvious). I didn't need to backspace over it. So maybe this is a browser issue? Or perhaps a phone/tablet vs desktop quirk?

However, I have noted some oddities (only the first item is directly related to your post).
1) Why is it a significant amount of time when I want to reply to a second post in a thread, that my reply ends up including all the text of my previous reply to a different post?
I'm not sure, but when I wanted to quote your msg when replying, I got a msg about adding it to the multi-quote - could that mean that when you reply to a second post that it it ADDS to the previous quoting? It was also odd that quoting the post didn't start a reply - I needed to hit reply after hitting quote. Not terribly obvious.

2) I tried cancelling a test post - and there is no 'cancel' button. We can post, preview, insert quotes - but not cancel. Making it non-obvious how to cancel the post. When I went back to a previous page, and then fwd again, there was my test post, just waiting for me to (accidentally) post it. We need a clear and obvious way to cancel a post.

3) It might be my browser (or settings), but line spacing is now larger (i.e., more vertical space between lines), which makes it easier for my old eyes to read, but also means that fewer lines are displayed on a page, which is not good. Is there a way for each user to set the amount of vertical spacing?

FWIW, I am using a Linux host and current Firefox browser.

There are some things I like better about the new sw, and some things I like less. I am willing to give it a try, and attempt to get used to it. Personally, I welcome the removal of the 'enhanced mobile view', which I always found unusable - it showed me far less info per unit of screen than did the normal 'desktop' view. Just my opinion, I'm sure others liked it. I have yet to try this new sw on my phone ...



turf3 said:


> Why should users have to do this additional work to achieve what was out of the box before this "update"?
> 
> Why is it a significant amount of time when I want to reply to a second post in a thread, that my reply ends up including all the text of my previous reply to a different post?
> 
> Why did you tell me I could highlight text and push "delete" to have it go away, when I had just told you it doesn't work? And will you repeat that statement after I just now proved it false again? And it is NOT TRUE that you can highlight unwanted text and hit backspace to have it go away, either. Nope, you gotta put the cursor at the end of the unwanted text and backspace slowly over the whole block of unwanted text.
> 
> Why about a third of the time I push "Post reply" and nothing happens, nada zilch zip?
> 
> And finally, why should I spend hours customizing an entertainment website to make simple matters like typing, copying/pasting, and deleting work like all other Windows products work OUT OF THE BOX?
> 
> Sorry, but I'm grading the "upgrade" at a D minus for user interface and functionality. I can't comment on matters like improved security.


----------



## JayeLID

Pete Thomas said:


> Is this it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latest activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net


*YES, Pete ! How do I navigate to THAT page ? Or set my filters or preferences or whatever so I can view that page (without simply having to bookmark it ?)*


----------



## Pete Thomas

I can't see it in the navigation, we will need to as @VSadmin to fix it. It should be a tab under New


----------



## NickBGood

I'm sure that there are positives to this version, but those two issues affect the entire user experience.
[/QUOTE]

Changing the background to white makes it harsh on the eyes, and the Dark Mode alternative is too dark.

I'm sure that there are positives to this version, but those two issues affect the entire user experience.
[/QUOTE]


dexdex said:


> Yep, too bright or too dark, I agree.


I realize that it is a monumental task to do an overhaul like this. I recognize that not everyone is going to like change. While I'm sure the new/updated features will be a step forward, *this new look is like looking into someone's white-halogen headlights.* I can't even stay on long enough to investigate the new features&#8230;

Normally, I wouldn't post a negative comment, but I'm a long-time fan of SOTW and want to be able to use it and remain part of this community. My hope is SOTW will find a way to make it more visually appealing. I would love to have a "Classic View" option. The old site was much easier on the eyes.

For now I will not be visiting anymore. I'll check in after new viewing options are implemented in a few weeks - hopefully I can find an option that works for me.


----------



## JayeLID

Pete Thomas said:


> I can't see it in the navigation, we will need to as @VSadmin to fix it. It should be a tab under New


Thanks...did you ....'as '....him ?


----------



## malteof

JayeLID said:


> *YES, Pete ! How do I navigate to THAT page ? Or set my filters or preferences or whatever so I can view that page (without simply having to bookmark it ?)*


Can I just ask politely why you use colours in your replies? It can look really weird for people using the dark mode e.g., not sure you're aware.


----------



## Sigmund451

I posted on another thread...not marketplace. It was to advise a new player. I could not edit my post....where did the edit button go? I spell everything wrong and have trouble typing on devices..lgotta be able to eddddddiiitttt.

edited. Finally found it.


----------



## Sigmund451

I used to be distinguished...
Am I now extinguished?

I also wish there was another color scheme. White is pretty bright...dark gets visually busy and distracting


----------



## turf3

Keep in mind that "best contrast for immediate viewing" is not the same as "least fatiguing for extended reading". 

This is why PIckett slide rules have black indications on a yellow background, they selected this for extended use in discriminating small divisions. If you've ever spent a few hundred hours at the drafting table in long stretches you'll know how tiring it gets to keep looking at tiny divisions of black-on-white scales.

So what might be best for aircraft instruments or warning signs (white on black, perhaps?) is probably not the best for reading a thousand page novel (black on off-white, like most books?)


----------



## Guto

Bottom line is that while dark mode is a nice concept for eye fatigue with reduced power consumption on OLED screens, when you throw in rotating ads that take >1/3 of the screen and are randomly white or black or any color, flashing every few seconds it really messes everything up. Eye fatigue goes through the roof in my experience.


----------



## lostcircuits

malteof said:


> Can I just ask politely why you use colours in your replies? It can look really weird for people using the dark mode e.g., not sure you're aware.


It is to accommodate Grumps, he can go to Dark mode and then JayeLIDs posts will be unreadable


----------



## lostcircuits

Here is another issue/missing feature from the old forum. It used to be that you can see who browsed the thread and also, who was currently looking at the thread. That was a very nice feature, please add it back in.


----------



## lostcircuits

Is there a way to just show new posts in chronological order instead of just the lapidary listing of thread titles? In the old forum, even if there were several replies, the individual replies showed up in the time line of the "what's new" listing which gave a very good indication of which threads were trending and who contributed. Not trying to belittle or deify certain members but there are certain members who always have some interesting and valuable contributions which was the main reason I would read some threads but that feature appears to have fallen by the wayside. So now I only see the thread and that person xyz was the last to post, which is meaningless, and that's a really big loss for the forum if it is not brought back or enabled somehow. If a resolution for this has been posted somewhere in the previous 11 pages, I apologize but in that case, it would be just another confirmation of the lack of functionality of the new format.


----------



## lesacks

lostcircuits said:


> Is there a way to just show new posts in chronological order instead of just the lapidary listing of thread titles











Latest activity







www.saxontheweb.net





Pete Thomas said he'd ask VSadmin to put a link somewhere


----------



## hakukani

Sigmund451 said:


> I used to be distinguished...
> Am I now extinguished?
> 
> I also wish there was another color scheme. White is pretty bright...dark gets visually busy and distracting


Thanks for making me explore our new admin console. I figured out how to redistingush you.


----------



## Pete Thomas

lesacks said:


> Pete Thomas said he'd ask VSadmin to put a link somewhere


I did for latest activity, however i'm wondering now about Lapidary


----------



## lesacks

Pete Thomas said:


> I did for latest activity, however i'm wondering now about Lapidary


I guess that's a link to the Klangbogen thread.


----------



## GaSax

I posted an option for the screen brightness above. Getting the impression some of y'all just want to complain just because it's been updated.

Even if you don't want to mess with the night filter or blue filter, every monitor, tablet or phone I've ever owned, used or played with has a dim feature. This is something y'all can fix yourselves!


----------



## lostcircuits

lesacks said:


> Latest activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete Thomas said he'd ask VSadmin to put a link somewhere


Thanks, I was looking and looking for that button, guess I just have to type it in manually.


----------



## lostcircuits

Pete Thomas said:


> I did for latest activity, however i'm wondering now about Lapidary


Lapis: latin for stone. Lapidary: heavy and unmovable like a rock or "weightful/important". A lapidary statement is a statement that sinks in (like a rock)


----------



## lesacks

lostcircuits said:


> Lapis: latin for stone. Lapidary: heavy and unmovable like a rock or "weightful/important". ...





lesacks said:


> I guess that's a link to the Klangbogen thread.


I rest my case.


----------



## Sacks Of Phones

Lots of adds eveywhere. Do they go away if you become a "Premium" member? Oops, did I just start a premium discussion without paying? 💩 Lots of emoticons though.


----------



## ZootTheSim

ZootTheSim said:


> Still having filter issues. If I select one filter it works, but if I select all filters, the search returns no posts at all. Maybe there's an "AND" where there should be an "OR"?


It also seems that the "Discussions You Started" filter doesn't work, or at least, doesn't include any threads one may have started before the site upgrade.

I'd say that the Filter feature so far is a bust.


----------



## Benny

I can’t stand the new format, beneficial for me- won’t spend nearly as much time here


----------



## Guto

I’ve been trying but I can’t stand it either. So much unwanted clutter.
But it’s the flashing, animated and numerous ads that are absolutely driving me nuts.
Hoping for a better future, it’s time for a hiatus ...


----------



## malteof

As with any change in your life, give it at least a little time before you decide if you like it or not. Try it for a couple of weeks at least before giving up.


----------



## milandro

ZootTheSim said:


> It also seems that the "Discussions You Started" filter doesn't work, or at least, doesn't include any threads one may have started before the site upgrade.
> 
> I'd say that the Filter feature so far is a bust.


I've just tried, I went to what's new , my favorite access to the forum before as now, then I filtered the discussions started by me, and they all appear in sequential order.

True this only involves new discussions.


----------



## PigSquealer

It would be nice to have less empty space around the posts. Also change the type font. Something like Times Roman or a choice that is a little more bold. it’s almost impossible to see on a phone. I have to enlarge the screen on an iPad. 
Replying is a pain in the🐴. Quote Replies mid page I have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page to type the post. What happened to the reply box showing up under the quoted post..... or have I missed something on that technique. 
it would be nice to have the city listed next to my avatar. It’s nice to know the members around you. I appreciate the use of the flags but the US is almost a 3000 miles from left to right. On a better note my post count is now correct on my profile page. Why not next to my avatar. Just curious as this could affect my trophy points 🙄


----------



## PigSquealer

milandro said:


> I've just tried, I went to what's new , my favorite access to the forum before as now, then I filtered the discussions started by me, and they all appear in sequential order.


I see you haven't lost your touch even on the new format ??


----------



## PigSquealer

lostcircuits said:


> Here is another issue/missing feature from the old forum. It used to be that you can see who browsed the thread and also, who was currently looking at the thread. That was a very nice feature, please add it back in.


Also missing is the membership signed in on the main page. How many guests and how many members. Also the high amount on a given day. I guess the green dot next to your avatar now tells me you're alive. 
Was always interesting to see a couple hundred members and 3000 guests lurking in the background.


----------



## milandro

Not quite, because the that only shows the posts since the reformation of the forum.

Like everyone else I am struggling to make things work for me and frankly even if they would be working for me alone I would still want that everyone was feeling better about the forum since a forum is only, worth as much as the people whom make the forum think it is worth for THEM.

In other wordes if the format discourages people from posting , this forum would be of no use to anyone, not to us nor to Vs , since they can only monetize a forum with enough traffic.


----------



## milandro

PigSquealer said:


> Also missing is the membership signed in on the main page. How many guests and how many members. Also the high amount on a given day. I guess the green dot next to your avatar now tells me you're alive.
> Was always interesting to see a couple hundred members and 3000 guests lurking in the background.


If you go to the right three dots on top of the page you find members, you can then tick the bx members on lne









Currently Online







www.saxontheweb.net





It will tell you who is on line and on the right how many people are on line and stats...


----------



## Pete Thomas

PigSquealer said:


> Quote Replies mid page I have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page to type the post.


That's odd, reply direct to post or highlighted portion to quote is working fine here for me.


----------



## PigSquealer

Pete Thomas said:


> That's odd, reply direct to post or highlighted portion to quote is working fine here for me.


I just figure it out?? you don't tap on quotes you tap on reply? Now what is the Quote +" do ?


----------



## malteof

PigSquealer said:


> Now what is the Quote +" do ?


It lets you add quotes to a list, which you can later insert in your reply. You can +quote from all over the place in the thread and then use all at once. It's super handy.


----------



## PigSquealer

milandro said:


> If you go to the right three dots on top of the page you find members, you can then tick the bx members on lne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently Online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will tell you who is on line and on the right how many people are on line and stats...


Excellent thank you. That's four of 12 steps to find my friends. Only 17 members online right now. That's going to be one long page when 300 of us are online.
So where did you find the instruction manual ?


----------



## PigSquealer

malteof said:


> It lets you add quotes to a list, which you can later insert in your reply. You can +quote from all over the place in the thread and then use all at once. It's super handy.


OK, it's kind of like a paste shortcut ?


----------



## Pete Thomas

PigSquealer said:


> So where did you find the instruction manual


See the FAQs under the three dots navigation


----------



## milandro

PigSquealer said:


> Excellent thank you. That's four of 12 steps to find my friends. Only 17 members online right now. That's going to be one long page when 300 of us are online.
> So where did you find the instruction manual ?


After the initial help mostly offered by Jeff M and Pete Thomas I proceeded to try things out, using the basic knowledge recently acquired . This has been helping me a bit to understand the basic logic of this platform which, I suppose, was made following a certain coherent train of thoughts

I an by no means particularly smart but there is a lot to be learnt by just trials and errors


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> I an by no means particularly smart but there is a lot to be learnt by just trials and errors


I think sometimes people don't want to do that. But for instance I wonder how many have looked around the menu, because the FAQ is right there and very helpful. (But I can understand that also many people won't actually realise that the three dots means menu, it would vabeen useful to just have that word there instead of the cryptic icon)

Having said that, the long opening post of this very thread explains a lot of things.

My own thoughts are there is a mix of good and bad about this interface. Maybe some people have only found bits they don't like and assume the worst before they find out about the good bits. It is a slightly cut down version of a a very good forum platform (xenForo) I would have been much happier if it wasn't so customised.

I'm also sad that we SOTW admin/mod can no longer help with the tech issues. Don't worry I have been a complete PITA and thorn in the side as @VSadmin will be able to testify to  . I hope we can be granted back some of the ability to sort out the tech problems (Latest Acivity links) , marketplace access etc.

But one thing is for sure, it is a done deal. The old format (vBulletin 4) was _End of Life_ and would have expired sooner or later anyway due to it's reliance on an outdated version of PHP technogy, so some kind of upgrade was a necessity.


----------



## malteof

Pete Thomas said:


> It is a cut down version of a a very good forum platform (xenForo) I would have been much happier if it wasn't cut down.


Do you know why they're using the cut down version instead of the proper thing?


----------



## Sigmund451

malteof said:


> Do you know why they're using the cut down version instead of the proper thing?


$$$$$ ?


----------



## Pete Thomas

Sigmund451 said:


> $$$$$ ?


Sorry, that sounded a bit misleading. There is no official "lite" version, it's (I think) the full version but just customised.

Although much of what seems to be missing may just be due to the reduced navigation. Having said that, for me it is still better than the old vBulletin 4. But also a problem for us is the reduced staff permissions.


----------



## Sigmund451

Pete, you have my permission


----------



## lostcircuits

Well, I just bookmarked the latest activity and that's all I am using now. And it brings back most of the missing functionality. They should make it the default option of "New" instead of the thread view, which you will get anyway when you are looking for any specific sub forum.


----------



## Sigmund451

Help me out lostcircut...is latested activity the same as the old "New Posts" on the old forum?
that is what I used and at the heading there is a bubble that says new....is that the same as New Posts?

And Yes Pig Squealer, Id love to have different fonts. This one is a little faint, especially on devices. Even on my desktop its not what I would use if I didnt have to.


----------



## malteof

@VSadmin maybe remove the for sale threads in Looking for Replies, because those are never really going to have replies besides the OP...


----------



## milandro

malteof said:


> @VSadmin maybe remove the for sale threads in Looking for Replies, because those are never really going to have replies besides the OP...


assuming that nothing will ever change....


----------



## lydian

Apologies if this has already been posted, but the attachments are missing from all my old posts that originally had attachments.


----------



## nvilletele

I have decided that I like the new format, because it will mean I will stop wasting so much time here. It really is driving me away, which is a good thing. 

For me, at least. But then, I am sure some of you feel the same way. (I mean being happy about me not being around much anymore)


----------



## lostcircuits

milandro said:


> If you go to the right three dots on top of the page you find members, you can then tick the bx members on lne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently Online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will tell you who is on line and on the right how many people are on line and stats...


But that's a very cumbersome way of doing it because you have to leave the thread and then the only thing you get is who is online and views an unknown page instead of who is viewing the same thread that you are currently browsing.

In other words, it needs more cowbell!


----------



## milandro

mdavej said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, but the attachments are missing from all my old posts that originally had attachments.


I (and perhaps others) have brought this up before 

Yes, they are gone and dusted, the good news is that you can edit the for sale posts and add as many new pictures (or old ones) as you like.

You cannot add to your own post but you can edit them.


----------



## lostcircuits

nvilletele said:


> I have decided that I like the new format, because it will mean I will stop wasting so much time here. It really is driving me away, which is a good thing.
> 
> For me, at least. But then, I am sure some of you feel the same way. (I mean being happy about me not being around much anymore)


I am slowly warming up to the new format, hopefully they will optionalize (yea, I made up that word) the color scheme because this is really just giving me headaches.

Another issue is if you hit the back button to get you to the latest activity, it does not refresh (except for the ads), that should be an easy fix.


----------



## BrianMitchellBrody

I do not like the pay to play portion but I will make sure I avoid that and try to enjoy the rest of the site.


----------



## ZootTheSim

Paywall aside, the new site does have several advantages over the old one. Still, I'd like to see the Filters include all past threads, and would like all missing signature data to be returned. And yes, fewer ads.


----------



## dirty

milandro said:


> they are gone and dusted


Is this true? Is this discussion happening somewhere that I missed?

That's a lot of history lost if so.

Is it a matter of database migration? I assume we have backups of those files somewhere?

I've started a few threads about ongoing projects that I'd like to be able to continue with.


----------



## GaSax

PigSquealer said:


> It would be nice to have less empty space around the posts.


Not positive but think those empty spaces are place holders for ads. Sometimes I only see one ad on the page with those blank spaces between posts. Other times I'll see ads where those blank spaces were.


----------



## Tranechaser

I’ve given this thing a couple of days and the new format still isn’t sitting well with me. I feel like I’m staring at a google search result every time I try to navigate though the forum. I’ll keep trying for a couple of weeks, but as of now I’m not feeling the urge to come look at this site when I get online.


----------



## BH9

Every 3rd or 4th post is an ad, and at least half of the page is pop-up ads? No thanks.


----------



## milandro

dirty said:


> Is this true? Is this discussion happening somewhere that I missed?
> 
> That's a lot of history lost if so.
> 
> Is it a matter of database migration? I assume we have backups of those files somewhere?
> 
> I've started a few threads about ongoing projects that I'd like to be able to continue with.


If you are referring to the pictures contained in the for sale section (not the content), unless they were held on a hosting site, so, the ones uploaded on this forum (and at the moment I am only sure this refers to the for sale section) , mine are all gone, I have just replaced it. I would have to check about other parts of the forum where I may have uploaded some pictures not coming from an external source.


----------



## frasermanx

No voice typing ... but not expected either. Always a mess changing software/hardware ---- good luck !

F


----------



## milandro

if you are using a mac you have voice typing built in your computer 
just tap your keyboard twice on Fn and then chose the language (if that option is there) and speak

I am now using this feature typing this with it


----------



## lesacks

Does voice typing work question mark. It would appear so on Android


----------



## malteof

lesacks said:


> question mark


Hehe...


----------



## milandro

lesacks said:


> Does voice typing work question mark. It would appear so on Android


I suppose it does, it is a feature of the device not of the forum ! ( this punctuation was also dictated with a mac)


----------



## lesacks

Ok. So here's a question arising from having a good look round.
Why wheren't the articles - like the mammoth rock'n'roll pages - converted to Showcases? I'd'v thought that would be perfect.

Edit:
Basically everything dumped in








Teaching Resource


Teaching Resource




www.saxontheweb.net


----------



## Saxophone Strange

At this point it sounds like reverting would be the request but... I can't say that I am thrilled by the new setup. It has a lot of holes. The paywall issue is another thing. Ads are what drive the the site and make it able to be existing. Got to monetize somehow, I guess. I agree that losing old content would (if it is fully true) a real shame as a lot of really good information has been here. All software should have things to add regarding the word filtering (which is it's own issue). There is no reason that cannot be resolved. One of the ones I have an issue with is it is really hard to see when a post is from. You can see when the post was started in the list but not in the thread. Not that dates aren't there but those are relevant to the poster; that is confusing. At least for the moment.... disappointed.


----------



## malteof

Saxophone Strange said:


> The paywall issue is another thing.


What exactly is the paywall issue? Seems like paying only removes the ads for now basically... Seems fair to me.


----------



## GaSax

I haven't seen any pop up ads yet on my Android phone. But I got it set to block pop ups. 
Though it never stopped the Google billionth user award pop up BS with the older version of this forum.


----------



## ZootTheSim

Wait, are you saying ALL of the attached pics from ALL of our old posts are gone?? Seriously?!? Will they be restored or not?


----------



## milandro

ZootTheSim said:


> Wait, are you saying ALL of the attached pics from ALL of our old posts are gone?? Seriously?!? Will they be restored or not?


No, I am saying that the pictures that I have attached to the for sale ad and that weren't on an outside hosting site but uploaded on this forum (since photobucket wanted money to do this I gave this up and started uploading on the forum) they are now showing as a dead link


----------



## JayeLID

malteof said:


> Can I just ask politely why you use colours in your replies? It can look really weird for people using the dark mode e.g., not sure you're aware.


You have been here and seen my colors for years, fellow....

Answer:

Like Everest, _Because__ It is __There_


----------



## ZootTheSim

milandro said:


> No, I am saying that the pictures that I have attached to the for sale ad and that weren't on an outside hosting site but uploaded on this forum (since photobucket wanted money to do this I gave this up and started uploading on the forum) they are now showing as a dead link


Exactly, when I look back at pics that I posted over the past few months (not on the For Sale forum), they all seem to be missing. When I try to add an image or add an attachment, it no longer takes me to my gallery of previously uploaded images. They seem to have all been deleted, along with my profile information. That's doubtless why your links are dead, milandro.

Have all of our old attachments been permanently deleted to save server space, or will they be restored?


----------



## malteof

JayeLID said:


> You have been here and seen my colors for years, fellow....
> 
> Answer:
> 
> Like Everest, _Because__ It is __There_


I'm not convinced you have to use it just because it's there! Maybe it's better used sparingly to emphasize certain parts of your post? Have you tried without? You might find it's an improvement


----------



## milandro

ZootTheSim said:


> Exactly, when I look back at pics that I posted over the past few months (not on the For Sale forum), they all seem to be missing. When I try to add an image or add an attachment, it no longer takes me to my gallery of previously uploaded images. They seem to have all been deleted, along with my profile information. That's doubtless why your links are dead, milandro.
> 
> Have all of our old attachments been permanently deleted to save server space, or will they be restored?


I have edited and replaced, when necessary and possible the missing pictures, I don't know if they have been kept separately but I would tend to doubt it.


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> I don't know if they have been kept separately but


I very much am sure the old files and database will still exist so no need to panic, I'm sure it can be fixed as a priority @VSadmin


----------



## ZootTheSim

I hope you're right, Pete. Maybe @VSadmin could weigh in to let us know of their plans for restoring the user data that's gone missing?


----------



## turf3

And don't forget to meet the 2019 4Runner. Amazing Utitlity Meets Off-Road Durability.

Can this forum take us back to 2019? Frankly I am so done with 2020.


----------



## turf3

So why do I have insufficient privileges to comment in the thread

"An incredibly rare S80 Soprano mouthpiece!!!"

???????


----------



## milandro

Because it is it in the " for sale" section, no one can post comments there






Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net





see, under classified


----------



## Pete Thomas

turf3 said:


> So why do I have insufficient privileges to comment in the thread
> 
> "An incredibly rare S80 Soprano mouthpiece!!!"
> 
> ???????


Can you provide a link to it?

if it's in the marketplace it has been like that since July 2019


----------



## milandro

I did give a link before here it is again






Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net


----------



## Pete Thomas

I was replying to turf3


----------



## milandro

yes, it is about the same thread on the soprano mouthpiece, I looked it up, the thread is in classified ads


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> yes, it is about the same thread on the soprano mouthpiece, I looked it up, the thread is in classified ads


I see it now, but your link just looked like a link to the home page


----------



## VSadmin

lesacks said:


> Latest activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pete Thomas said he'd ask VSadmin to put a link somewhere





Pete Thomas said:


> I did for latest activity, however i'm wondering now about Lapidary





lostcircuits said:


> Thanks, I was looking and looking for that button, guess I just have to type it in manually.


You guys can "View all Latest Posts" by "Marking All Read" on the New Post page:








New Posts







www.saxontheweb.net













Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

PigSquealer said:


> Also missing is the membership signed in on the main page. How many guests and how many members. Also the high amount on a given day. I guess the green dot next to your avatar now tells me you're alive.
> Was always interesting to see a couple hundred members and 3000 guests lurking in the background.


You can see that on the "Members Page"








Notable members







www.saxontheweb.net





"Currently Online:








Currently Online







www.saxontheweb.net














Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

PigSquealer said:


> Excellent thank you. That's four of 12 steps to find my friends. Only 17 members online right now. That's going to be one long page when 300 of us are online.
> So where did you find the instruction manual ?


You can "follow" or friend users and see them here:








Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net





Full FAQ on the new software here:








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net





Jeff M


----------



## Pete Thomas

VSadmin said:


> You guys can "View all Latest Posts" by "Marking All Read" on the New Post page:


The issue here is is Latest Activity not New Posts.

In order to see (global not user) latest activity you need to put in the actual URL see here as it is missing from the navigation.


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> I did give a link before here it is again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sax on the Web Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net


@VSadmin
This is a problem because the internal links don't always unfurl properly. I missed that because it just looks like a link to the home page, it should have the thread title in the link


----------



## HeavyWeather77

Everybody hates change, and I'll admit that I miss the old format that was so comforting for so long! But I agree that modernization, and in particular security, are important, so if the new platform helps with that, all good. 

One thing that I'd like to address: I really hate curated "for you!" suggestions, especially as a home page. Is there a way to select, say, "new posts" as my default landing page for my account? Or something like that? Algorithmically curated feeds are one of the worst things about our era after the advent of Twitter, in my opinion (and social science agrees with that point of view, I'm afraid).


----------



## Pete Thomas

HeavyWeather77 said:


> Algorithmically curated feeds are one of the worst things about our era after the advent of Twitter, in my opinion (and social science agrees with that point of view, I'm afraid).


I agree, the _Recommended for you _homepage feed just doesn't work (I am a member of other forums with that and you just get to ignore it). In fact it often shows the opposite of what I would want.

Best thing is to do what most people do and make New Posts your browser bookmark so it is then your own personal landing page.


----------



## lesacks

VSadmin said:


> You guys can "View all Latest Posts" by "Marking All Read" on the New Post page:


Indeed. But that isn't the same as


Code:


https://www.saxontheweb.net/whats-new/latest-activity

Which is more like the old activity stream / RSS feed. (and must be a very cheap page to generate for you!)


----------



## VSadmin

malteof said:


> @VSadmin maybe remove the for sale threads in Looking for Replies, because those are never really going to have replies besides the OP...


EDIT - Looked into this and no easy way to do it unless we remove them from the "New Posts" listing also

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

milandro said:


> I (and perhaps others) have brought this up before
> 
> Yes, they are gone and dusted, the good news is that you can edit the for sale posts and add as many new pictures (or old ones) as you like.
> 
> You cannot add to your own post but you can edit them.





mdavej said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, but the attachments are missing from all my old posts that originally had attachments.


The Devs are still looking into this one to restore the images.

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

dirty said:


> Is this true? Is this discussion happening somewhere that I missed?
> 
> That's a lot of history lost if so.
> 
> Is it a matter of database migration? I assume we have backups of those files somewhere?
> 
> I've started a few threads about ongoing projects that I'd like to be able to continue with.


It is not true, see my post above.

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

lesacks said:


> Ok. So here's a question arising from having a good look round.
> Why wheren't the articles - like the mammoth rock'n'roll pages - converted to Showcases? I'd'v thought that would be perfect.
> 
> Edit:
> Basically everything dumped in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teaching Resource
> 
> 
> Teaching Resource
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net


We were unable to migrate them there and still will be doing some cleanup on these and adding some others post-migration.

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

malteof said:


> What exactly is the paywall issue? Seems like paying only removes the ads for now basically... Seems fair to me.


Agree there are no "Pay Wall" issues and members think there are can see my post *HERE* but will repost in the thread.

This is the current state of that section as it is just a placeholder and can be made into whatever the Community and Admin decide here.

It is not an attempt to move you all to a "Pay to Post" format, it is just a new feature that can be molded into a sort of VIP lounge or hidden from the general public area chatter.

We have added it as a perk among other things to the *premium membership program**. *

View attachment 4357


Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

ZootTheSim said:


> Exactly, when I look back at pics that I posted over the past few months (not on the For Sale forum), they all seem to be missing. When I try to add an image or add an attachment, it no longer takes me to my gallery of previously uploaded images. They seem to have all been deleted, along with my profile information. That's doubtless why your links are dead, milandro.
> 
> Have all of our old attachments been permanently deleted to save server space, or will they be restored?


Mentioned multiple times in this thread that we are still working on restoring them.

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> I agree, the _Recommended for you _homepage feed just doesn't work (I am a member of other forums with that and you just get to ignore it). In fact it often shows the opposite of what I would want.
> 
> Best thing is to do what most people do and make New Posts your browser bookmark so it is then your own personal landing page.





HeavyWeather77 said:


> Everybody hates change, and I'll admit that I miss the old format that was so comforting for so long! But I agree that modernization, and in particular security, are important, so if the new platform helps with that, all good.
> 
> One thing that I'd like to address: I really hate curated "for you!" suggestions, especially as a home page. Is there a way to select, say, "new posts" as my default landing page for my account? Or something like that? Algorithmically curated feeds are one of the worst things about our era after the advent of Twitter, in my opinion (and social science agrees with that point of view, I'm afraid).


Note we are Beta testing improvements to the Recommended Reading feature and will be rolling them out in QA 2020.

One of the main things will it will no longer dig up older threads and suggest ones similar to what you like, follow, and comment on based upon keywords.

Jeff M


----------



## Sigmund451

Digging up older threads was a valuable part of this forum. Its not just a chit chat site about sax. Old threads sometimes revived brought valuable insights to the forefront that may have been forgotten or not observed by newer members. Algorithms essentially alter history. They automatically assume current exchanges are more valuable than those that occurred earlier. Please correct me and explain If I am wrong. Please dont make this sax-twit on the web.


----------



## VSadmin

Sigmund451 said:


> Digging up older threads was a valuable part of this forum. Its not just a chit chat site about sax. Old threads sometimes revived brought valuable insights to the forefront that may have been forgotten or not observed by newer members. Algorithms essentially alter history. They automatically assume current exchanges are more valuable than those that occurred earlier. Please correct me and explain If I am wrong. Please dont make this sax-twit on the web.


Users can still search for the threads it will just not suggest as many "old" threads under "Recommend Reading" and the homepage.

Jeff M


----------



## Pete Thomas

Sigmund451 said:


> Digging up older threads was a valuable part of this forum. Its not just a chit chat site about sax. Old threads sometimes revived brought valuable insights to the forefront that may have been forgotten or not observed by newer members.


I agree old threads are good


VSadmin said:


> Users can still search for the threads it will just not suggest as many "old" threads under "Recommend Reading" and the homepage.





VSadmin said:


> One of the main things will it will no longer dig up older threads


Nooooo!

I don't understand why old threads shouldn't be under "Recommend Reading" - the important thing is if you are going to use those algorithms, they need to work well and there is nothing wrong with old threads being there. In fact we encourage people to use old threads, there is so much good stuff back there.


----------



## lostcircuits

VSadmin said:


> You can see that on the "Members Page"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notable members
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Currently Online:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently Online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4543
> 
> 
> Jeff M


Appreciate your feedback but that's not what we were asking for/about. What we were looking for was to see who is co-browsing the same thread whereas the Currently Online option forces you to leave the thread and then you can see who is online but you have to scan through several pages to see if anybody was looking at the same thread. I guess the "unknown page" refers to pre-renovation threads.


----------



## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> I agree old threads are good
> 
> Nooooo!
> 
> I don't understand why old threads shouldn't be under "Recommend Reading" - the important thing is if you are going to use those algorithms, they need to work well and there is nothing wrong with old threads being there. In fact we encourage people to use old threads, there is so much good stuff back there.


Understood,

They will still be there they are just tweaking the artificial intelligence on these a bit, these settingss can be customizable per community also once we get it dialed in.

Jeff M


----------



## VSadmin

lostcircuits said:


> Appreciate your feedback but that's not what we were asking for/about. What we were looking for was to see who is co-browsing the same thread whereas the Currently Online option forces you to leave the thread and then you can see who is online but you have to scan through several pages to see if anybody was looking at the same thread. I guess the "unknown page" refers to pre-renovation threads.


10-4, Gotcha.

This is just the "workaround" that we have with this system for now.

When it says "Unkown page" it could be the homepage, moderator area, or hidden section.

Jeff M


----------



## HeavyWeather77

First of all, VSadmin, thank you for your work here and your patient responses. Any change will invariably bring on a barrage of opinions, no matter how well executed it is, and overall I think the new site looks good and works well.

I personally enjoy the fact that this forum has developed a culture that's very different from Twitter, Reddit, or the dreaded FB, though, and I agree with Pete that anything we can do to keep it from moving in that direction (from a technological standpoint) would be appreciated.


----------



## lesacks

HeavyWeather77 said:


> First of all, VSadmin, thank you for your work here and your patient responses. Any change will invariably bring on a barrage of opinions, no matter how well executed it is, and overall I think the new site looks good and works well.
> 
> I personally enjoy the fact that this forum has developed a culture that's very different from Twitter, Reddit, or the dreaded FB, though, and I agree with Pete that anything we can do to keep it from moving in that direction (from a technological standpoint) would be appreciated.


+1

(See how I didn't use the like button out of respect for your point)


----------



## Pete Thomas

lesacks said:


> (See how I didn't use the like button out of respect for your point)


This makes no sense, the opposite if anything.


----------



## lesacks

Pete Thomas said:


> This makes no sense, the opposite if anything.


No? Because the like button wasn't made famous by FB?
(Though the opposite of "makeing no sense" is "making sense"... So, yeah?)

And I do agree with the sentiment. Discussion boards are different to things like Reddit because, IMHO, they are less (though not completely) susceptable to drive by questions and responses. Folks get to establish their personalities, interests etc. And that helps others understand their posts.


----------



## JayeLID

malteof said:


> I'm not convinced you have to use it just because it's there! Maybe it's better used sparingly to emphasize certain parts of your post? Have you tried without? You might find it's an improvement


a) if your argument is based on 'necessity' - one might counter: is it at all necessary for you to have begun such a digression in a thread which is intended to report bugs and problems and questions to the admin ?
b) occasionally I have posted a quick reply without.....I prefer with.

So that should have covered that (I'd think). Enjoy your day 🌷


----------



## JayeLID

Pete Thomas said:


> The issue here is is Latest Activity not New Posts.
> 
> In order to see latest activityyou need to put in the actual URL see here as it is missing from the navigation.
> 
> View attachment 4544


Right. So at the moment (unless I missed something ?) it appears the only way I can find the 'Recent Activity' page, which is not the same as where the "New" navigation button takes you to....

...is to bookmark the 'Recent Activity' page......

So, am wondering @VSadmin , if there will eventually be a Nav button to get us directly there (?)


----------



## Pete Thomas

Pete Thomas said:


> don't understand why old threads shouldn't be under "Recommend Reading" - the important thing is if you are going to use those algorithms, they need to work well and there is nothing wrong with old threads being there. In fact we encourage people to use old threads, there is so much good stuff back there.


However I'm beginning to notice revival of old some old threads that maybe were better left dead. The problem seems to be more with the relevance so perhaps I take back some of what I said above.]

Old threads are OK in recommended reading, _*as long as they are relevant.*_


----------



## VSadmin

JayeLID said:


> Right. So at the moment (unless I missed something ?) it appears the only way I can find the 'Recent Activity' page, which is not the same as where the "New" navigation button takes you to....
> 
> ...is to bookmark the 'Recent Activity' page......
> 
> So, am wondering @VSadmin , if there will eventually be a Nav button to get us directly there (?)


We have a few workarounds but no ticket to add it anywhere at this time so just keep that link bookmarked and I will see what I can do.

You can see your "Replies" and Discussions Created" on your profile page *HERE* and will be having some tweaks made to it in upcoming weekly releases.

New posts and your activity are both listed under the following links *HERE* and *HERE*

If you "Mark all Read" on the "New Posts" page you will get "View all Latest Posts"

Jeff M


----------



## Pete Thomas

VSadmin said:


> New posts and your activity are both listed under the following links *HERE* and *HERE*


Jaye was meaning the global forum Latest Activity, which exists on this page but has no link that we can find in navigation and *this is the link* (It should be a subnavigation item of What's New but is not there)


----------



## milandro

I have never used that particular fuction but I understand that latest activity is targeting the people ( shops pedominately the name of the poster and the avatar) while what’s new shows the name of the thread (and shows the name of the paster but without the avatar).

So, if one poster is interested in which member is doing what, the latest activity gives a very to the point picture.


----------



## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> have never used that particular fuction but I understand that latest activity is targeting the people ( shops pedominately the name of the poster and the avatar)


Yes, exactly. I don't use it either but a lot of people do like it and it is a stock part of xenforo so should be appearing in the navigation. For me it shows too much information like who reacted to who. (Pity it doesn't show who is ignoring who







)

_New posts_ is useful to see the _just_ latest posts in context of the whole thread and who started it. Clicking on the main thread link takes you to the first unread post (which is good) or you can just click on the post on the rihght hand side by clicking on the time stamp. Nice, but maybe not quite so intuitive.


----------



## milandro

This answers what I found out several times in the past, that some members were sort of “ following” my every activity on the forum.


----------



## Pete Thomas

JayeLID said:


> You have been here and seen my colors for years, fellow....
> 
> Answer:
> 
> Like Everest, _Because__ It is __There_


My understanding is that malteof is mentioning it not as a problem going on for years (which it wasn't IMO), but purely because now there is a dark mode, fore people using the dark mode, it isn't so easy to read the blue and purple with a black background.


----------



## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> Jaye was meaning the global forum Latest Activity, which exists on this page but has no link that we can find in navigation and *this is the link* (It should be a subnavigation item of What's New but is not there)


Understood, it is not something we quickly add but will tag it on as a feature request for the team to review however we have many other larger-scale items to tackle first.

Jeff M


----------



## malteof

Pete Thomas said:


> My understanding is that malteof is mentioning it not as a problem going on for years (which it wasn't IMO), but purely because now there is a dark mode, fore people using the dark mode, it isn't so easy to read the blue and purple with a black background.


That's correct, some text colours just disappeared when I tried the dark mode...


----------



## Pete Thomas

VSadmin said:


> Understood, it is not something we quickly add but will tag it on as a feature request for the team to review however we have many other larger-scale items to tackle first.


It's not so much of a feature request, but more of a stock existing xenforo feature "unlocking". So it's not really connected to anything new, just reinstating something that both old and new software have inbuilt - just needs the link in navigation to help people get to it.


----------



## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> It's not so much of a feature request, but more of a stock existing xenforo feature "unlocking". So it's not really connected to anything new, just reinstating something that both old and new software have inbuilt - just needs the link in navigation to help people get to it.


Unfortunately, it is not that simple and the templates will need to be coded to add it.

Jeff M


----------



## Roundmidnite

Is there a mechanism to "friend" people or just "follow" and where did the list of people it says we are following come from?


----------



## PigSquealer

VSadmin said:


> Note we are Beta testing improvements to the Recommended Reading feature and will be rolling them out in QA 2020.
> 
> One of the main things will it will no longer dig up older threads and suggest ones similar to what you like, follow, and comment on based upon keywords.
> 
> Jeff M


I'll refrain from answering these questions. The four dead listings say plenty, and none is not a option.


----------



## PigSquealer

Jeff thank for pointing me at the instructions manual. Anyone lookin on how navigate site ?
click on 3 dots in upper right. Choose FAQ.


----------



## malteof

PigSquealer said:


> I'll refrain from answering these questions. The four dead listings say plenty, and none is not a option.
> View attachment 4614


Maybe @VSadmin should just exclude marketplace from the recommendations.


----------



## lesacks

Roundmidnite said:


> Is there a mechanism to "friend" people or just "follow" and where did the list of people it says we are following come from?


If you click / tap on someone's screen name or avatar there should be a box with some statistics and (+)Follow at the bottom.
Mind you, under menu>Users it does not show who has the most followers, so we'll never really know who are the SOTW influencers...


----------



## Roundmidnite

Thank you! I guess they did away with the whole "friend" thing, which makes sense to just follow. I just wondered if I was missing something. It also says I'm following all these people, which is fine (I guess they mostly correspnd to the previous "friends"). I just wondered where that came from- I don't remember a follow option before, just friends.


----------



## jthole

Thanks to everyone who helped during the migration (I know those projects are not easy).

I couldn't find it in the last couple of pages in this thread (I admit I didn't read the whole thread), but is there any way to bring back the archives from the past? As it is now, Google search results just bring you to the landing page, instead of to the actual threads. A lot of valuable history is inaccessible that way (at least, using a public search engine).

Thanks!

Edit: just read in another thread that it is already being addressed. But I also noticed that I could not delete this post. Was that functionality removed? (very useful in cases like this)


----------



## JayeLID

Pete Thomas said:


> My understanding is that malteof is mentioning it not as a problem going on for years (which it wasn't IMO), but purely because now there is a dark mode, fore people using the dark mode, it isn't so easy to read the blue and purple with a black background.


OK so the issue is...folks don't like a white background because it 'blinds them' (silly position to take, honestly)...so they go dark mode. In dark mode the dark colored lettering isn't ostensibly as readable.

This, BTW, only happens with 3 colors: DARK PURPLE, THE GREYS, and BLACK (which nobody would ever choose to use for coloration, anyways)

Can the default background of this new setup be changed from pure-white to off-white ? As Cafe Saxophone is ? Light grey ? Or does the version this Forum is implementing not allow that ?

People never complain about readability due to background on the Cafe.

Or can the default font type and sizes to make black lettering more easily readable on a stark white background as well ?

In the meantime, so as not to cause our more sensitive members any undue stress, and also not allow them to miss any of my stellar contributions ? to these convos...I have increased my font size, which should alleviate any coloration-readability 'issues'...


----------



## malteof

JayeLID said:


> In the meantime, so as not to cause our more sensitive members and undue stress, I have increased my font size, which should alleviate any coloration 'issues'...


Somehow it seems there might be another solution that's even better... Can't quite put my finger on what it might be though. 

Jokes aside, there's too much white and the Cafe has got it right in terms of readability.


----------



## Pete Thomas

I don't think it's so much "people don't like the white background" (although i do see that some don't) rather that now dark is available as an option, then fair enough people may want to use it. I just think it's worth pointing out to you that some of your posts won't be so legible.



JayeLID said:


> One can chage the background from pure-white to off-white, no ? As Cafe Saxophone is ? Or one can set the default font type and sizes to make black lettering more easily readable on a stark white background as well.


No. People can only change the style from light (ie white background) to dark (black background). I'm not aware people can change the font or sizes sizes (except as milandro pointed out, in their own posts by formatting with the text editor)


----------



## lesacks

Pete Thomas said:


> People can only change the style from light (ie white background)


There is a 3rd way. Let the browser do the work. And, IMHO, chrome does a better job (chrome dark mode with SOTW lite) then the site does (though not on all sites!). This is still experimental, but eventually sites coding dark mode will become almost redundant.

chrome://flags/#enable-force-dark


----------



## lostcircuits

Quite honestly, I don't get this entire discussion. If anyone of the folks running the forum had a clue about html coding, it would be as easy as changing a single "ffffff" entry to e.g. "aaaaaa" and the problem would go away. I am not even advocating letting folks pick their own background color. 

The argument of "working on another rollout" is literally a slap in the face of anyone who knows just the tiniest bit of web development. Shaking my head or "smh" ... I don't want to go into motivation or lack thereof but literally all the changes that have been suggested / promised will take probably less than 30 minutes of work for any halfway decent coder.


----------



## turf3

What would it take to kill "Recommended for You"?

Was there a request for this or is it something "VSAdmin" decided we were going to have? If the second, I'd vote to nuke it.


----------



## Pete Thomas

Please note everyone, when I said this _People can only change the style from light (ie white background) to dark (black background)._ I was referring to what is currently possible on this site, not what is theoretically possible on websites in general.

Any such requests need to go to @VSadmin who is running the site on behalf of the owners VerticalScope.

Those of os SOTW staff have no control whatsoever over the interface or style of the site beyond making you aware of what is available right now.



lesacks said:


> There is a 3rd way. Let the browser do the work.


Yes, I'm aware of that but generally with websites it's best you present the best user interface without asking them to jump through even the smallest hoop.

Nor is it good to tell people which browser to use IMO.



lostcircuits said:


> If anyone of the folks running the forum had a clue about html coding, it would be as easy as changing a single "ffffff" entry to e.g. "aaaaaa" and the problem would go away.


See above. However I believe VS has a policy of all their sites having consistency, hence what they change would be across literally 1000s of sites. *See here*.

( @VSadmin please correct me if I'm wrong) but I think this means they ought to listen to all feedback from all sites, so it won't be as simple as changing some simple bit of code just for this site.

Maybe I am wrong, and they can implement simple changes to style quickly - which would be nice.


----------



## lesacks

lostcircuits said:


> ...working on another rollout...


(If the site is run on something like kubernetes with a full fat workflow, then yeah, even a hot fix of 1 line is a "rollout"... And if the code is common to all VS sites? 😯)


----------



## lostcircuits

Yes, you are correct, containers and a common VS sites template make things a bit more tricky. On the other hand, Jeff referenced other sites that have a different "card" layout so the options are there. Couldn't you just implement a call function specific to SOTW. Of course, that would be more than a simple line change. 
BTW, I looked at the source code and there is enough crap in there to give little children nightmares , all the stats, how long every poster stays on the site and what not ...


----------



## lesacks

lostcircuits said:


> "card" layout


Yeah. Didn't he say that that would be rolledout soon? Hopefully it helps people who don't like this one (which is, seems to me, very "Mobil first" which was hip some years ago. Now cards are groovy).

And, no doubt, we're all data now 🕵️‍♀️


----------



## lostcircuits

Pete Thomas said:


> Please note everyone, when I said this _People can only change the style from light (ie white background) to dark (black background)._ I was referring to what is currently possible on this site, not what is theoretically possible on websites in general.
> 
> Any such requests need to go to @VSadmin who is running the site on behalf of the owners VerticalScope.
> 
> Those of os SOTW staff have no control whatsoever over the interface or style of the site beyond making you aware of what is available right now.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of that but generally with websites it's best you present the best user interface without asking them to jump through even the smallest hoop.
> 
> Nor is it good to tell people which browser to use IMO.
> 
> See above. However I believe VS has a policy of all their sites having consistency, hence what they change would be across literally 1000s of sites. *See here*.
> 
> ( @VSadmin please correct me if I'm wrong) but I think this means they ought to listen to all feedback from all sites, so it won't be as simple as changing some simple bit of code just for this site.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong, and they can implement simple changes to style quickly - which would be nice.


Pete, I never insinuated that it was within your capabilities, we all know that moderators are not in charge of layout and similar and instead, it would be the task for the VS admin to communicate the information upstream to the forces that be. I don't want to beat a dead horse so I'll leave it at that but traffic for the site has taken a nose dive from what I can see, recent activity is driven mostly by "likes" instead of contributions and the owners seem to leave it to the site admins to weather the storm while depriving them of the means of doing anything about the issues. At least that's my 30,000 ft view and I (among others) am concerned about what the future holds.


----------



## PigSquealer

JayeLID said:


> OK so the issue is...folks don't like a white background because it 'blinds them' (silly position to take, honestly)...so they go dark mode. In dark mode the dark colored lettering isn't ostensibly as readable.
> 
> Can the default background of this new setup be changed from pure-white to off-white ? As Cafe Saxophone is ? Light grey ? Or does the version this Forum is implementing not allow that ?
> 
> Or can the default font type and sizes to make black lettering more easily readable on a stark white background as well ?
> 
> In the meantime, so as not to cause our more sensitive members any undue stress, and also not allow them to miss any of my stellar contributions ? to these convos...I have increased my font size.


This is not an app, so it does not support dynamic type size. Thanks for increasing your font size. Something I suggested somewhere in the last 17 pages.
Also somewhere in the old format were statistics of the membership. Over 55 is the largest group. yeah large type matters. For this website I mostly use an iPad. In settings you can adjust the screen brightness and warmth. I usually operate on maximum warm. The background is similar to the café. Brightness I adjust as needed. Keep in mind some of the members take medication that make eyes light sensitive?



Pete Thomas said:


> I don't think it's so much "people don't like the white background" (although i do see that some don't) rather that now dark is available as an option, then fair enough people may want to use it. I just think it's worth pointing out to you that some of your posts won't be so legible.
> 
> No. People can only change the style from light (ie white background) to dark (black background). I'm not aware people can change the font or sizes sizes (except as milandro pointed out, in their own posts by formatting with the text editor)


pass my above comment to pass along to VS !


lostcircuits said:


> I don't want to beat a dead horse so I'll leave it at that but traffic for the site has taken a nose dive from what I can see, recent activity is driven mostly by "likes" instead of contributions and the owners seem to leave it to the site admins to weather the storm while depriving them of the means of doing anything about the issues. At least that's my 30,000 ft view and I (among others) am concerned about what the future holds.


Not to distract other members from reading good content I gave your post a "like"?
I hope the 18 members and 266 guest currently online appreciate that ?


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## VSadmin

Pete Thomas said:


> See above. However I believe VS has a policy of all their sites having consistency, hence what they change would be across literally 1000s of sites. *See here*.
> 
> ( @VSadmin please correct me if I'm wrong) but I think this means they ought to listen to all feedback from all sites, so it won't be as simple as changing some simple bit of code just for this site.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong, and they can implement simple changes to style quickly - which would be nice.


Correct we are unable to make some small tweaks quickly per community since we are using a highly customized version of Xenforo that is templated out globally across our network.

If you guys want a sneak peek of how the "Card View" coming next month will look check out this thread.








Announcement - Card View Beta Live on OneFora!


Hello everyone! Update: Card View has moved out of Beta and is now launched globally as the default view on January 6th. Card View brings framed content with a card-like appearance. This change introduced our new spacing and typography guide. Original Post: You probably noticed, we just...




www.onefora.com





Jeff M


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## PigSquealer

VSadmin said:


> Correct we are unable to make some small tweaks quickly per community since we are using a highly customized version of Xenforo that is templated out globally across our network.
> 
> If you guys want a sneak peek of how the "Card View" coming next month will look check out this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Announcement - Card View Beta Live on OneFora!
> 
> 
> Hello everyone! Update: Card View has moved out of Beta and is now launched globally as the default view on January 6th. Card View brings framed content with a card-like appearance. This change introduced our new spacing and typography guide. Original Post: You probably noticed, we just...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.onefora.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff M


Well if the system is so highly customized you're basically saying it's an extrusion of everything else. Lots of experience and should have no issues. 
Nothing personal but I don't want to see what's coming next week. I'm still trying to deal with the last two weeks.
Nothing like ruining a long-term large following.
Send this trophy to your boss.


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## Bkenes

I'm no expert at SEO or google but I think that this will only be a problem the first few weeks.
What has happened is that the new forum has created new URLs and therefor google can't find the old ones.
In time - usually a few weeks - googles search crawlers will find these old pages and list them again with their new URLs.

But it's annoying right now when google yet doesnt work for SOTW.


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## lesacks

VSadmin said:


> We were unable to migrate them there and still will be doing some cleanup on these and adding some others post-migration.
> 
> Jeff M


Just a thought on this. On the old site there was a "convert to article" function for threads. I don't know how often it was used. None the less a Convert (or better Add) to Showcase option would allow folks to do it themselves.
Quite a lot of people have "showcase" type threads (eg Jim Schmidt's Inventions, some colleagues with YouTube channels etc) as well as the old articles.
IMHO such content is a good chunk of what's good about SOTW and giving it a better showcase [sic] whould be great for the community and would showcase Showcase[non sic].


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## Sigmund451

Pete Thomas said:


> See above. However I believe VS has a policy of all their sites having consistency, hence what they change would be across literally 1000s of sites. *See here*.


Consistency is only a virtue when its not screwed up and according to Emerson, "Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."


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## Sacks Of Phones

Removed (can't seem to delete it myself)


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## VSadmin

Bkenes said:


> I'm no expert at SEO or google but I think that this will only be a problem the first few weeks.
> What has happened is that the new forum has created new URLs and therefor google can't find the old ones.
> In time - usually a few weeks - googles search crawlers will find these old pages and list them again with their new URLs.
> 
> But it's annoying right now when google yet doesnt work for SOTW.


Re caching the site will take a little time. So far google has been very kind to the changes we have made. 
-Philip


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## VSadmin

Sacks Of Phones said:


> Removed (can't seem to delete it myself)


If you would like your account removed from the site you can email [email protected] to make the request. 
-Philip


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## PigSquealer

VSadmin said:


> If you would like your account removed from the site you can email [email protected] to make the request.
> -Philip


He was trying to delete his post. If you are typing a post and decide not to post. There is no cancel. You have to select all and delete. then move to another thread and come back. Otherwise the reply box is still open.


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## neutrino

PigSquealer said:


> He was trying to delete his post. If you are typing a post and decide not to post. There is no cancel. You have to select all and delete. then move to another thread and come back. Otherwise the reply box is still open.


I mentioned this some pages back; once you start a post you cannot cancel it. It seems obvious that there should be a way to cancel a post, but apparently the need is not as obvious as I would have thought.


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## Sacks Of Phones

Is anyone else getting redirected to add websites by this %$%$ Saxophone discussion website?? No, I do not have spyware.


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## PigSquealer

Sacks Of Phones said:


> Is anyone else getting redirected to add websites by this %$%$ Saxophone discussion website?? No, I do not have spyware.


No. I have a Malwarebytes. So I don't see any ads or anything.


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## Sacks Of Phones

PigSquealer said:


> No. I have a Malwarebytes. So I don't see any ads or anything.


 I also have Malwarebytes without the real time protection (I'm cheap). I do not have malware. This was happening this morning.


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## PigSquealer

Sacks Of Phones said:


> I also have Malwarebytes without the real time protection (I'm cheap). I do not have malware. This was happening this morning.


Don't know what to say? Try a Bundy instead of Selmer vi for breakfast ?‍♂


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## buddy lee

Hi all, first I'd like to apologize for a recent double post in the horns for sale forum. I got an error when I first tried posting so it double posted when I re-did it. Please delete one of those.

However, I realized I left out the asking price in my post and wanted to reply to the post with it (since we cannot edit), and it's saying I don't have permission to do so.

I hope this isn't intentional, because then there's no way to add pictures later, or reduce a price etc. Please advise.


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## datsaxman

There were some posts about this recently. They are supposedly working on this, so it is a known glitch. 

Said Pete Thomas.


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## Pete Thomas

The glitch is regarding not replying. I have no idea when they will sort that.



buddy lee said:


> (since we cannot edit)


Meanwhile you _can_ edit.


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## Pete Thomas

datsaxman said:


> They are supposedly working on this, so it is a known glitch.
> 
> Said Pete Thomas.


Please note everyone, although yes it was me who I said it's a known glitch, it isn't up to the SOTW staff to fix as we do not have those kinds of admin permissions.


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## Dr G

Given that I need to learn a new format, and things here are a general mess, I am going to put some energy into learning my way 'round the CafeSaxophone.com.


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## Sacks Of Phones

PigSquealer said:


> Don't know what to say? Try a Bundy instead of Selmer vi for breakfast ?‍♂


I went into the Firefox security section. Can't remeber now what I checked but the redirects are gone.......hopefully for good.


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## VSadmin

If you get the pop-up again please grab as much of this info as you can as it is needed to report and block them and report in this thread.









Pop Up Redirect Reporting Thread - read post #2


Now I'm getting those annoying damn Fakebook pop-ups. Just come clean with us, how long is it going to be before we're forced to join the SurveillanceBook legions to access SOTW?




www.saxontheweb.net





*Requested info:*
Description of the issue, including frequency
Date and time (including timezone) when it occurred
Platform, OS, and browser
Geographical location of user (city, state, country)
IP address of user
Advertiser URL (if you click on the ad, where does it go?)
Information on the ad call (when you inspect the ad, who is it coming from)? - a screenshot of the elements code should suffice

Jeff M


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## dirty

@VSadmin is there a Jira (or similar) board that community members can follow to track the status of ongoing feature requests and bug reports? Keeping track of this thread has gotten pretty difficult.


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## VSadmin

dirty said:


> @VSadmin is there a Jira (or similar) board that community members can follow to track the status of ongoing feature requests and bug reports? Keeping track of this thread has gotten pretty difficult.


We are using Jira and Pivotal Tracker for Migration issues, Bugs, and Feature Requests but do not allow access to members. There are hundreds of tickets and priorities are shifting weekly depending on workload and as new issues arise.

The best way to keep track of progress is on our Release Notes:








Release Notes







www.saxontheweb.net





Jeff M


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## datsaxman

Might be a good move.


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## 1saxman

It is awful. The last one was so much better - you could see the most recent subjects on the front page, and going to the 'Forums', you could see the topics that had been updated since your last visit. This is really a PITA to negotiate, and frankly, is simply not worth the trouble.


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## turf3

Hear, hear.

I predict loss of views due to adding excessive unnecessary complexity and new bugs - fewer views means less ad revenue.

No telling how long it'll take till it augers in, but the existing very poor technical support will get worse and worse as ad revenues go down, which will drive more people away. We'll see if the site survives in the long term.


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## lostcircuits

Dr G said:


> Given that I need to learn a new format, and things here are a general mess, I am going to put some energy into learning my way 'round the CafeSaxophone.com.


I just registered there myself yesterday


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## lostcircuits

turf3 said:


> Hear, hear.
> 
> I predict loss of views due to adding excessive unnecessary complexity and new bugs - fewer views means less ad revenue.
> 
> No telling how long it'll take till it augers in, but the existing very poor technical support will get worse and worse as ad revenues go down, which will drive more people away. We'll see if the site survives in the long term.


I don't really "like" your post, or rather its implication but unfortunately the Titanic appears on collision course with the iceberg


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## PigSquealer

Dr G said:


> Given that I need to learn a new format, and things here are a general mess, I am going to put some energy into learning my way 'round the CafeSaxophone.com.


After two or is it three weeks ? I can't keep track of squat anymore. having to click a main subject then all the sub forms to find out what's new is just a stupid. 


1saxman said:


> It is awful. The last one was so much better - you could see the most recent subjects on the front page, and going to the 'Forums', you could see the topics that had been updated since your last visit. This is really a PITA to negotiate, and frankly, is simply not worth the trouble.


I find clicking on everything for 10 minutes to find nothing very entertaining. 99% of The daily member activity has gone. There's nothing left to read here except ancient archives. Just good ones that actually have some research value. Harry had a good run of it all. 


lostcircuits said:


> I just registered there myself yesterday


I was wondering about the long line.


lostcircuits said:


> I don't really "like" your post, or rather its implication but unfortunately the Titanic appears on collision course with the iceberg


This is what happens when you're trying to decide to post or click the like button.


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## jthole

Am I the only one who thinks that the new forum is awfully slow?


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## milandro

no speed issues ( just tried a refresh of this page was instantaneous)


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## Tranechaser

jthole said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that the new forum is awfully slow?


I think it's awfully awful!


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## Guto

Deleted


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## VSadmin

BUMPIng this thread as many questions that have been asked in this section have already been asked and anwered in this thread.

Before starting a new thread please read this one and review the FAQ's *HERE*

Jeff M


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## ZootTheSim

How's the attachment file recovery going?


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## PigSquealer

ZootTheSim said:


> How's the attachment file recovery going?


The pictures?


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## VSadmin

ZootTheSim said:


> How's the attachment file recovery going?





PigSquealer said:


> The pictures?


Still waiting on an update from the migration team but the images are not lost.

Jeff M


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## PigSquealer

I severely miss the old activity stream. 
what’s with this thread and several others on the main board not showing replies or views? That smells of censorship in a subtle way.


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## Pete Thomas

PigSquealer said:


> what's with this thread and several others on the main board not showing replies or views?


373 replies, 8k views.


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## notes_norton

Now that this thread has come back from the dead, I must say that now that I've gotten used to it, I like the new design of this forum better than the old one. 

Insights and incites by Notes


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## milandro

this thread is only 3 months old it is doesn’t even smell funny! 


anyway if there is something that i miss (what a paradox since it wasn’t good for many), is the old search engine, I keep on having better results with google + adding sax on the web to the search than searching on the site itself.

Today I was looking for an old comment that I made on Selmer in the past and no matter how much I searched here couldn’t find it ( the search engine gets distracted if you use more than 2 terms )


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## dirty

Yeah the new search seems to include signatures in the search text and returns multiple results from a single thread, even from a single page. I was trying to search for a thread from last fall and it was easier to find it by scrolling back through the forums manually than search for it.

Of course, googling the search terms along with site:saxontheweb.net returned the thread immediately.

Overall, though, I do slightly prefer the new forum's look and feel.


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## PigSquealer

Pete Thomas said:


> 373 replies, 8k views.
> 
> View attachment 8463


I'm still trying to figure out how to follow and find things. Sorry for the delayed reply. Those numbers were not showing. Multiple threads looked like the ones I have boxed and red. This thread is now showing correct. I originally clicked on it because I thought the thread has been closed.


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## Pete Thomas

Most of those links you have outlined in red are redirections, ie those appear to be mostly threads that were merged into other threads or moved to another forum for whatever reason.

Note the redirect icon (box with diagonal arrow)










For technical reasons, perhaps it doesn't make sense for statistics to show on the redirects, but they do show on the destination thread.

In the past when we moved or merged threads there was a choice for moderators to leave a redirect, that choice is no longer there, but we can delete the redirects. In some cases it may be best to do that, in others it could be deemed that the redirects are useful.


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## kreacher

milandro said:


> Today I was looking for an old comment that I made on Selmer in the past and no matter how much I searched here couldn't find it ( the search engine gets distracted if you use more than 2 terms )


Have you tried putting the terms between " "? It helps, I just tried it, searching for you comment with the phrase "only 3 months" it's the 3rd result and it goes after the specific phrasing on all the forum. If I try without the " ", it returns all bunch of things, but not your comment. The thing is, the phrase must be exact... probably not much help if you don't know what was written exactly, or a part of it.


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## milandro

yes, I have, you may probably know , I am rather experienced in searching, but the resident search engine, is, to me, almost useless


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## Pete Thomas

kreacher said:


> Have you tried putting the terms between " "? It helps, I just tried it, searching for you comment with the phrase "only 3 months" it's the 3rd result and it goes after the specific phrasing on all the forum. If I try without the " ", it returns all bunch of things, but not your comment. The thing is, the phrase must be exact... probably not much help if you don't know what was written exactly, or a part of it.


By default I believe the search is going to look for one word OR the other - and sort be relevance (which could mean anything but I presume might be a combination of how often one of the words appears, or whether it appears in other posts on the same thread or by date (which is obviously chooseable as a different criterira)

So if you search +only +3 +months it should find "only 3 months" but should also find "3 months only"

Likewise you could search +synthetic -legere And will get posts mentioning synthetis but not legere. One issue though is you may have to search +synthetic -legere -legeres


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## kreacher

Pete Thomas said:


> By default I believe the search is going to look for one word OR the other - and sort be relevance


The default relevance I believe is the number of views the thread containing the word/phrase has. But has you said, it can be changed to newest, sorting it by time.


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## milandro

been there, done that, google still works better


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## swperry1

With all the pop ups and glitches the first couple months of roll out I was about to just stop coming around because it was annoying and not user friendly. The worst of the ad styles seem to have gone away and, at least on mobile, the forum is easier to navigate...can’t really speak to the full site as I rarely log on from my desktop. I do like the recommended reading section as it’s a nice feature to show related posts, but it certainly has created a rash of zombie threads 🧟🧵


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