# Rules Clarifications re: Classifieds &Vendor Section



## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

[NB: threads merged and initial post edited to be up to date]

After discussion with members, Verticalscope and staff, the rules have been clarified and updated.

There are no huge changes but we have very slightly updated the formatting and text of Marketplace/Vendor rules to make them clearer. It was also necessary to make them compatible with the limitations/capabilities of the new platform and of course the Verticalscope terms

Summary of Classified/Vendor changes due to platform migration and/or aligning with Verticalscope rules[/B]

Terminology (Classifieds/Vendors)
Eligibility for classifieds
Contact with sellers
Editing/Bumping
Marking as SOLD
*Verticalscope rules*

Commercial posting / official VS Vendors
Vendor rules
*Summary of other changes*

Commenting is allowed. Previous rules will apply.
You can see the new *formatted rules here*

(For comparison you can see the previous rules in post #4 of that thread)

*Please reply here with any questions or clarifications you may need, but note that this is an announcement thread (about aligning rules to technology) and although we welcome feedback, this isn't the thread to suggest any new rules you may want in place or removal of existing rules outside those parameters.*


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## Dr G (Feb 2, 2003)

First of all, Thank You to the moderators for sustaining the effort to make a graceful transition.

And while you’re revisiting the policy, is there any proven benefit to having only one item per ad?

The previous effort to quantify “Significant price drops” was a very clear guideline - I hope similar clarity continues. Having unambiguous rules should make the job of the moderators less contentious.

Be well, Pete.

Thanks again.


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## ZootTheSim (Jun 22, 2016)

I’m glad that commentsfrom the community will be allowed again. Without them, the ads seemed dry and somehow less compelling.


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## Enthusiast65 (Apr 15, 2006)

Congratulations Pete, an excellent outcome
and I’m sure will prove a very popular move.


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## datsaxman (Nov 28, 2005)

Some progress. Agree with one item per ad policy. Open a store or get a vendor account if you have a ton of the same things to sell. 

I greatly dislike having people post random noise in my for sale threads. Whtvr.


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## JayeLID (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks both to the Mods and Admin for this. 👍


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## Cal Jazz Cat (Nov 8, 2012)

Pete Thomas said:


> I'm happy to say we now have a new policy on Classified ads (ie the category formerly known as the Marketplace):
> 
> Eligible members = 50 posts and six months membership as before BUT irrespective of join date.




Thank you for the clarification. As a long time member I was once again going to ask to be "grandfathered" into the Classified Ads. Instead I get my post count up to qualify.


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## Dr G (Feb 2, 2003)

Cal Jazz Cat said:


> Thank you for the clarification. As a long time member I was once again going to ask to be "grandfathered" into the Classified Ads. Instead I get my post count up to qualify.


Is it such a horrible price to pay - participating in the community where you choose to buy/sell gear for free?


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## Cal Jazz Cat (Nov 8, 2012)

Dr G said:


> Is it such a horrible price to pay - participating in the community where you choose to buy/sell gear for free?


Hey Dr G. The reason I have a low post count is I don't have the level of knowledge that other SOTW members have, and therefore I usually don't have anything to add to the conversation. I am however a daily reader. Also I would be glad to pay a fee to SOTW when I use the Classifieds.


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## 14470 (May 14, 2004)

Cal Jazz Cat said:


> The reason I have a low post count is I don't have the level of knowledge that other SOTW members have, and therefore I usually don't have anything to add to the conversation. I am however a daily reader. Also I would be glad to pay a fee to SOTW when I use the Classifieds.


I had the same feeling for the first couple of years after I joined. However, there are lots of amateurs like me here and SOTW is also a social media of sorts. There is no filter for members who can play Giant Steps in all 12 keys proficiently and I will bet money on that few can. Also, nothing wrong with asking questions about things you don't know about or curious what opinions other people may have. If you have pics of a cool old or new horn, there are always plenty of geeks here who will appreciate. One can think whatever of the 50 post rule, but it is hardly an astronomical number.


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## datsaxman (Nov 28, 2005)

Well spoken, brasscane. All are not only welcome but almost expected to participate here and there. 

Most of us are not experts on most things.


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## PigSquealer (Dec 27, 2017)

Dr G said:


> Is it such a horrible price to pay - participating in the community where you choose to buy/sell gear for free?


And take 8 years for 50 posts


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## Cal Jazz Cat (Nov 8, 2012)

JayeLID said:


> Thanks both to the Mods and Admin for this. 👍


I want to apologize to Pete and all the others that donate their time and talent to SOTW. I did not realize that my comment would hijack the rules update thread.


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## andre251 (Jan 6, 2009)

Please let us know when we are able to comment. Hopefully we are allowed to bump our listing one time to bring it up to speed with the new rules and forum. The last time the marketplace rules changed I bumped so that my post was not hidden and I was banned from the forum for three months. *[ADMIN fact check: this is not true]* Please clarify if we need to make a bump worthy comment once the new rules are set and ready to go.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

I’m sure it will be announced. A bump amnesty initially sounds like a good suggestion but could be confusing, it might be better to relist.


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## datsaxman (Nov 28, 2005)

No, bump amnesty just fosters incorrect behaviour.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

datsaxman said:


> No, bump amnesty just fosters incorrect behaviour.


I agree, I was thinking further about it and although it is a reasonable idea, as most people don't read announcements or stickies or rules, we would just get a flood of reports about bumping. And then people would bump beyond the amnesty period and then we'd get "So and so bumped, why can't I now bump" etc.

It seems like it would just be asking for trouble.


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## datsaxman (Nov 28, 2005)

It seems inevitable.


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## soybean (Oct 26, 2007)

Dr G said:


> ...And while you're revisiting the policy, is there any proven benefit to having only one item per ad?...


 I have nothing against multiple items for sale in one ad even though I've never listed like that. Multiple items in the same advertisement just save time and space for everyone.


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## 14470 (May 14, 2004)

soybean said:


> I have nothing against multiple items for sale in one ad even though I've never listed like that. Multiple items in the same advertisement just save time and space for everyone.


Don't say that. I am trying to unload four identical Selmer 404 ligatures (two are gone). Now, I can, or rather MUST, have 4 separate threads to comply with the rules. I have a feeling there would be a time when a moderator would have stepped in and asked me to condense. This is what happens with too many rules and too many changes.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

brasscane said:


> Now, I can, or rather MUST, have 4 separate threads to comply with the rules. I have a feeling there would be a time when a moderator would have stepped in and asked me to condense. This is what happens with too many rules and too many changes.


This is a rare case and we can accomodate it. The rules were written to apply to different items (we should clarify that) If they are identical I would say just list once as Selmer 404. If you get three interested purchaser just sell one to each. No need to edit for each sale or (when we get replies back) no need to reply each time you sell one. Just mark as sold when all of them are gone.


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## 14470 (May 14, 2004)

Pete Thomas said:


> This is a rare case and we can accomodate it. The rules were written to apply to different items (we should clarify that) If they are identical I would say just list once as Selmer 404. If you get three interested purchaser just sell one to each. No need to edit for each sale or (when we get replies back) no need to reply each time you sell one. Just mark as sold when all of them are gone.


I was just alerting you guys to peculiar aspects of the rules. They are in effect now listed separately, so I will leave it at that. Besides being perplexed by discovering 4 identical ligatures, I am not bothered, but going forward, clarification would indeed be helpful to everyone. BTW, thanks for everything you do!


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

brasscane said:


> but going forward, clarification would indeed be helpful to everyone.


I just checked, and lo & behold, this scenario was already covered and allowed under the existing rules (from June 2019):

*7. One item per ad *​_Post a new ad for each item. *This does not apply to totally identical items, e.g. if you have two identical items (same color, size, shape material) you may say you have two of them.* To avoid bumping, only post sold when both are sold._​


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## 14470 (May 14, 2004)

Pete Thomas said:


> I just checked, and lo & behold, this scenario was already covered and allowed under the existing rules (from June 2019):
> 
> *7. One item per ad *​_Post a new ad for each item. *This does not apply to totally identical items, e.g. if you have two identical items (same color, size, shape material) you may say you have two of them.* To avoid bumping, only post sold when both are sold._​


Okay, I stand corrected and will read the fine print next time - sorry. I don't see how mentioning that one has sold could be construed as bumping (some might want to buy more than one), but that is a different matter. I still think the old rules prior to June 2019 were much better. They generally worked better for the community at large. This is not to deny that there was abuse, but the means to curtail outliers has negatively impacted the forum for everyone else.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

I'd never say never, but let's keep focussed on one thing at a time. When it all went wrong last year (and there is no point in rehashing that), the admin consensus was a gnat's crotchet away from ditching the marketplace. Let's please now see how it works with replies allowed back. Patience from everyone please.


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## 14470 (May 14, 2004)

Pete Thomas said:


> I'd never say never, but let's keep focussed on one thing at a time. When it all went wrong last year (and there is no point in rehashing that), the admin consensus was a gnat's crotchet away from ditching the marketplace. Let's please now see how it works with replies allowed back. Patience from everyone please.


Understood.


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## Bkenes (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks Pete for the great news!
The migration is not a total failure with this update coming.
Thanks to all of you admins for everything you do around here


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## Dr G (Feb 2, 2003)

Is there any progress in the forward direction regarding comments allowed in the Marketplace?


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

Pete Thomas said:


> I just checked, and lo & behold, this scenario was already covered and allowed under the existing rules (from June 2019):
> 
> *7. One item per ad *
> _Post a new ad for each item. *This does not apply to totally identical items, e.g. if you have two identical items (same color, size, shape material) you may say you have two of them.* To avoid bumping, only post sold when both are sold._


sorry I may have missed something, are we still " one ad one item" or not, because I see multiple items in one ad and don't quite understand where we are at


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

milandro said:


> sorry I may have missed something, are we still " one ad one item" or not, because I see multiple items in one ad and don't quite understand where we are at


Nothing has changed in that regard


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

Any changes ijn the rules will be visible in the rules, there will also be an announcement. The only change planned is (as discussed) that members (in addition to sellers) will be able to reply. As soon as the technical side of that is fixed then we'll be updating the rules which currently say _read only_.


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

Pete Thomas said:


> I just checked, and lo & behold, this scenario was already covered and allowed under the existing rules (from June 2019):
> 
> *7. One item per ad *​_Post a new ad for each item. *This does not apply to totally identical items, e.g. if you have two identical items (same color, size, shape material) you may say you have two of them.* To avoid bumping, only post sold when both are sold._​





Pete Thomas said:


> Nothing has changed in that regard


well, then there are some infractions ...


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

milandro said:


> well, then there are some infractions ...


And I just saw a bear disappearing into the woods with a roll of toilet paper


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

Antartica has bears?


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

milandro said:


> Antartica has bears?


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

a rare crossbreed


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## datsaxman (Nov 28, 2005)

Obviously a stencil.


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## buddy lee (Feb 6, 2008)

Pete Thomas said:


> I'm happy to say we now have a new policy on Classified ads (ie the category formerly known as the Marketplace):
> 
> Eligible members = 50 posts and six months membership as before BUT irrespective of join date.
> _*Comments allowed *_by both seller and members. But as before no negative comments about item or debating price. It is _buyer beware!_
> ...


Hi I'm unable to reply to my own for sale ad which was created after the forum switch. What can I do?


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

buddy lee said:


> Hi I'm unable to reply to my own for sale ad which was created after the forum switch. What can I do?


It's not just you. We are all waiting for the owner of the forum to fix this problem.


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

for the time being, nothing, you may edit it though


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## Taragot (Jun 7, 2009)

I am not qualified to post/comment in the classiefieds section, but should have enough posts and years here on SOTW. Is this a mistake or is it intended like this?

Thank you


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

Taragot said:


> I am not qualified to post/comment in the classiefieds section, but should have enough posts and years here on SOTW. Is this a mistake or is it intended like this?
> 
> Thank you


See post #1


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## Taragot (Jun 7, 2009)

Ah, sorry, overread the last sentence. There are sections in the classified section, that are note directly marketplace related (ebay experience etc.) - but it's really not a big problem.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

Taragot said:


> note directly marketplace related (ebay experience etc.)


I agree that is weird.


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## Jerry K. (Feb 2, 2003)

Pete Thomas said:


> I'm happy to say we now have a new policy on Classified ads (ie the category formerly known as the Marketplace):
> 
> Eligible members = 50 posts and six months membership as before BUT irrespective of join date.
> _*Comments allowed *_by both seller and members. But as before no negative comments about item or debating price. It is _buyer beware!_
> ...


Works for me!


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## BariMelt (Jul 15, 2003)

Pete,
Thanks for your efforts to improve SOTW. We do appreciate you!


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## Bubba06 (Oct 11, 2009)

Could I make the suggestion that we have a type of "sticker" or something to add when it's sold, instead of having the entire thread disappear? It's great to have that archive to check out prices.

-Bubba-


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

@Bubba06

*threads don't disappear * (and they never did unless there was some special reason) and , as it is now we are editing (we can) the title and add sold....

see this









Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

milandro said:


> as it is now we are editing (we can) the title and add sold


When VS fix the issues with commenting, it should be possible also to add the prefix SOLD which will also add the possibility to filter threads by FS or SOLD status

That's what I'm hoping for anyway.


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

For the time being I've edited the sold ads with SOLD in the title (by the way I WISH I'd sell things for the price that I sold the same kind of horn before... this is how much the " reference" prices are worth...)

by the way Bubba seems to have found out how to add a SOLD himself









Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net


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## Bubba06 (Oct 11, 2009)

milandro said:


> *threads don't disappear * (and they never did unless there was some special reason) and , as it is now we are editing (we can) the title and add sold....





milandro said:


> by the way Bubba seems to have found out how to add a SOLD himself


That is correct, I do know how to edit posts. As do others, but as you can see, some are editing the posts in the way I described above








Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net












Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net












Sax on the Web Forum







www.saxontheweb.net







Pete Thomas said:


> When VS fix the issues with commenting, it should be possible also to add the prefix SOLD which will also add the possibility to filter threads by FS or SOLD status


That's exactly what I was picturing, sounds perfects. Thanks Pete.


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## milandro (Dec 22, 2006)

The ads therefore don’t “ disappear” they are cancelled by the people , which , to me, is a different thing.


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## Dr G (Feb 2, 2003)

Are the images going to be restored, or should we update our ads with new ones?


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## datsaxman (Nov 28, 2005)

Item 5. should probably include a reference to the popular Reverb site also. Yes?


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

Dr G said:


> Are the images going to be restored


I'd ask that in its own thread. I can't answer it as it's nothing to do with me or the SOTW staff.



Dr G said:


> or should we update our ads with new ones?


Without knowing the exact answer I'd advise you update any old threads with missing images by uploading them again. I think the editing rules are that you are allowed x number of edits per y number of days but I'm not exactly sure.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

datsaxman said:


> Item 5. should probably include a reference to the popular Reverb site also. Yes?


I have no idea about reverb or the many other outside sales platforms. All we did here was clarify the existing rules, revert to commenting and change where necessary mainly due to Verticalscope and forum software changes. So this is about the small minor changes that had to be made in this regard.

Changing the actual rules for the future would be a different discussion and opens up some big (or small) cans of worms. Not that I have anything against worms, just saying it's a different discussion to this announcement.


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## swperry1 (Aug 14, 2010)

If you also list on reverb, the rules say nothing against providing a link to your reverb listing in the contents of your ad that follows the regular rules for posting. Same for craigslist.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

ZootTheSim said:


> I'm glad that commentsfrom the community will be allowed again. Without them, the ads seemed dry and somehow less compelling.


Agreed


andre251 said:


> Please let us know when we are able to comment. Hopefully we are allowed to bump our listing one time to bring it up to speed with the new rules and forum.





Dr G said:


> Is there any progress in the forward direction regarding comments allowed in the Marketplace?





buddy lee said:


> Hi I'm unable to reply to my own for sale ad which was created after the forum switch. What can I do?





Pete Thomas said:


> It's not just you. We are all waiting for the owner of the forum to fix this problem.


It is now fixed you can comment on posts. Sellers can answer questions but not bump. Same as it ever was - same as it ever was.

When an item is sold the seller must edit the title to use the sold prefix instead of a sold bump that obscures all the still FOR SALE ads..



Bubba06 said:


> Could I make the suggestion that we have a type of "sticker" or something to add when it's sold, instead of having the entire thread disappear? It's great to have that archive to check out prices.





Bubba06 said:


> That's exactly what I was picturing, sounds perfects. Thanks Pete.


Done. And the prefixes are filterable.

What this means is if you click on (e.g.) any sold prefix you will then filter everything else out so just see the sold items.


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## buddy lee (Feb 6, 2008)

Saw that, and thanks Pete this helps a lot.


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

buddy lee said:


> Saw that, and thanks Pete this helps a lot.


We aim to please.

If only we could do more.

Or had better aim 

(reminds me of that sign in the gents' bathroom  )


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## Pete Thomas (Sep 12, 2004)

Please note, by popular demand, we have a new update to the rules re: multiple items and bumping

See here:









Rules Update for Classifieds and Vendors - commenting...


"Oh no, not again!" I hear you all chorus. In fact this time it is after listening to feedback from members, vendors and VSadmin, and is in fact mainly reverting one of the more unpopular changes made back in 2019, namely the listing of multiple items. This is now made possible due to...




www.saxontheweb.net


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