# I surrender



## Tranechaser

I know I’ve been whining about the new format, but I simply can’t use this thing. I’m probably one of the dumbest posters on here, so there’s that. But I’m going to bounce, can’t do it anymore. It’s been fun and I’ll miss the good times at SOTW, best of luck going forward. Later!


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## Hassles

well your post above is perfect - pour a beer and chill ;-)


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## jthole

I do most of my reading on a tablet, and there I prefer the new format (similar to what Café Saxophone uses, but different from Saxophonforum.de). However, on a computer, the old format was better. And I miss the text-only archives. So it's a mix really.


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## soybean

Tranechaser said:


> &#8230;I'm going to bounce, can't do it anymore. It's been fun and I'll miss the good times at SOTW&#8230;


I have been finding it really tough to use too. But my attitude is to wait a month or two while things get fixed. Hope you come back in a while.


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## Hassles

Many of us are struggling with the transition - me, purely PC based and fortunately all is ok but some aspects took some figuring out. Today, for the very first time, I created a "new post" start a new conversation - and had to figure that out.


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## lesacks

Tell me about it. I've never really been happy since moving away from Usenet groups.


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## mrpeebee

Tranechaser said:


> I know I've been whining about the new format, but I simply can't use this thing. I'm probably one of the dumbest posters on here, so there's that. But I'm going to bounce, can't do it anymore. It's been fun and I'll miss the good times at SOTW, best of luck going forward. Later!


That's a pity Tranechaser.

If you point out some of your issues I can try to give you some guidance (if I know it myself!).


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## JayeLID

jthole said:


> I do most of my reading on a tablet, and there I prefer the new format (similar to what Café Saxophone uses, but different from Saxophonforum.de). However, on a computer, the old format was better. And I miss the text-only archives. So it's a mix really.


It's similar to CafeSaxophone...but CafeSaxophone is actually better in regards to user friendliness....by more than just a wee bit.


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## Hassles

We, I am sure shall prevail, if only because we shall help one another. Please remain patient. Without you we are nothing!


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## milandro

jthole said:


> And I miss the text-only archives. So it's a mix really.


They are all still here, I easily find posts from 2003 (if you know the year you want to find this advanced search gives you all the results)









Sax Shed


What's the sax in you been up to? What did you do with that sax in the last 24 hours or 24 weeks ? I got a few leaks fixed on my tenor. (last night) Mostly been an alto player lately because of those leaks. Time to tend to that tenor. As much as I dig it, ,because of those leaks it's been alto...




www.saxontheweb.net





Also, knowing the date of your joining one can easily find your first created thread which is, Johan , this one @jtole ( back then an alto player!!!!)









Martin "The Martin" bari, pro's and cons?


Today I looked at a Martin "The Martin" bari (1956), plus also two more modern baritones. I don't have any real experience with bari saxes (I am an alto player), but I can first rent the instrument before making a final decision. The sound of the Martin, combined with a Meyer mpc, is awesome...




www.saxontheweb.net


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## JayeLID

It's a matter, IMHO, of the extent of the change.

For example, it was not hard nor 'jolting' to move from the old SOTW interface to the Cafe's. The Cafe's is certainly different than the SOTW's of a few weeks ago, and the Cafe has also been revised a couple of times (or more ?) since I joined there several years ago....but still 'similar enough' to not be unfamiliar.

The thing here is, as I see it - too great a leap in one fell swoop. To those who are very hip to constant techie www changes (called 'improvements' by some), no big deal maybe. 
But keep in mind there are (were) many here who basically used the SOTW platform, in a pretty much unchanged state as far as usability and aesthetics....for a good decade-plus.


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## milandro

yes, but as we’ve been told by Pete Thomas, that format is condemned to disappear because it is going to be soon not compatible to anything


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## Pete Thomas

milandro said:


> yes, but as we've been told by Pete Thomas, that format is condemned to disappear because it is going to be soon not compatible to anything


Not sure i said vBulletin will actually disappear so much as become more and more insecure due to relying on older versions of PHP.


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## milandro

well, yes, at some stage it will become unviable


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## bvhoyweg

mrpeebee said:


> That's a pity Tranechaser.
> 
> If you point out some of your issues I can try to give you some guidance (if I know it myself!).


I agree: a pity

As an IT pro I do not have any problem with the change.
But Tranechaser is not the only one to complain.
Maybe we should setup a mentorship and find somebody with a similar setup to assist?


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## milandro

I have been helped a lot by @Pete Thomas who gave lots of info in the first few days after the transition, his advise was to the point but he started to invite people to read the FAQ, which I did do, late, but I did, and that helped immensely, thank you @Pete Thomas


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## mrpeebee

bvhoyweg said:


> Maybe we should setup a mentorship and find somebody with a similar setup to assist?


That's not a bad idea, but reading the FAQ will also help a lot (everyone, IT pro or not):








FAQ







www.saxontheweb.net


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## lesacks

bvhoyweg said:


> As an IT pro I do not have any problem with the change.


You posted in the "Ads are ridiculous....Abrochado O Multado?" Thread. 
There you can see the deep problem - there's two or three layers of managers between the users and any technical support. We have an account manager who, probably, has to relay request to a tech manger who allocates - or not - to a team etc. So a problem like crazy adds or the marketplace get lost is formulaic responses.
All fine for normal function - but problems will drag on...


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## Dr G

Tranechaser said:


> I know I've been whining about the new format, but I simply can't use this thing. I'm probably one of the dumbest posters on here, so there's that. But I'm going to bounce, can't do it anymore. It's been fun and I'll miss the good times at SOTW, best of luck going forward. Later!


Let us know if you find a good Marketplace model. I found the format and rules of the AcousticGuitarForum.com quite good, but have little experience in others. Of course, there is little traffic there for saxophone goods, but the operation seems to work well.

Be well,

George


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## JayeLID

milandro said:


> yes, but as we've been told by Pete Thomas, that format is condemned to disappear because it is going to be soon not compatible to anything


If you interpreted my comment as suggesting "the old format should never have changed"....then you misinterpreted my comment...
The point I was getting at was - there are formats which provide a more user-friendly experience (thus my mention of the Cafe... which still retains a level of familiarity for the user even though it differs significantly from the old SOTW); and if one is going to endeavor to change formats, consideration of the user-friendly/familiarity aspect (both aesthetically and navigatibilty wise) should not be underestimated.


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## JayeLID

mrpeebee said:


> That's not a bad idea, but reading the FAQ will also help a lot (everyone, IT pro or not):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.saxontheweb.net


True to a small degree, but one must admit...the issues which people are having difficulty with (for example, the subject of this thread; or the apparent fact that certain familiar features are gone) are not those which are resolved simply by reading the FAQ.
This is why there's a fair level of dissatisfaction, IMHO.


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## Pete Thomas

JayeLID said:


> the issues which people are having difficulty with (for example, the subject of this thread;


Are you sure you mean this thread. The subject line, while explicit, isn't exactly constructive criticism.

We staff are frustrated that faced with an onslaught of (usually understandable) complaints, we are now unable to help in many cases (beyond "read the FAQs').

The VSadmin staff here are probably frustrated that when also faced with an onslaught of complaints, they still have their hands tied by corporate policy. Trust me, we SOTW staff are not giving them an easy run and luckily (I hope) they are thick skinned on account of being used to this when a forum changes platform.


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## JayeLID

Pete Thomas said:


> Are you sure you mean this thread. The subject line, while explicit, isn't exactly constructive criticism.


Oops...thanks for the correction...I thought we were on the "Buckle Up" ad thread....so I was referring to that situation...the degree of pop-up ads not being something which is addressed in the FAQ, if I am not mistaken....



Pete Thomas said:


> We staff are frustrated that faced with an onslaught of (usually understandable) complaints, we are now unable to help in many cases (beyond "read the FAQs').


 Right, that section which addresses relatively little, respectfully, when it comes to the issues most folks are unhappy about.....



Pete Thomas said:


> The VSadmin staff here are probably frustrated that when also faced with an onslaught of complaints, they still have their hands tied by corporate policy. Trust me, we SOTW staff are not giving them an easy run and luckily (I hope) they are thick skinned on account of being used to this when a forum changes platform.


We all (I think I can say without being presumptuous) do appreciate you noting this.

*When a forum changes platform, and when the new platform is somewhat remote in feel, familiarity, usability than the one it replaces....

I have no doubt things are still being considered and worked on, BTW...


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## Pete Thomas

JayeLID said:


> Buckle Up" thread..


What's that????


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## mrpeebee

JayeLID said:


> True to a small degree, but one must admit...the issues which people are having difficulty with (for example, the subject of this thread; or the apparent fact that certain familiar features are gone) are not those which are resolved simply by reading the FAQ.
> This is why there's a fair level of dissatisfaction, IMHO.


I've seen a lot of issues described here that *are *described in the FAQ. But not all, and in those cases it helps to describe in details what the issue is. We can than answer in detail if it's still possible or not, or requires a change request towards VSadmin (which is a difficult path and doesn't always resolve in resolved cases).

It's like it is for now, and please don't blame me (or other old SOTW moderators) for these issues, I'm spending already more of my very spares free time here than I would like to do trying, to help out. But members also have their own responsibility to invest some time to find the (new) way (I also had to do that). Change is a part of life, unfortunately also unwanted change (like this forum and maybe other software upgrades).


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## mrpeebee

JayeLID said:


> Oops...thanks for the correction...I thought we were on the "Buckle Up" thread....so I was referring to that situation...the degree of pop-up ads not being something which is addressed in the FAQ, if I am not mistaken....


Install a good ad blocker, that works (forum owners will never support that option in FAQ)!


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## Pete Thomas

JayeLID said:


> the degree of pop-up ads not being something which is addressed in the FAQ, if I am not mistaken....


No, that is purely monetisation policy. FAQs are all about how to use the forum. Although there is one relevant FAQ about that which is about the benefits of premium membership, part of which appears to be fewer ads, but I know nothing about the details of that.


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## milandro

mrpeebee said:


> (forum owners will never support that option in FAQ)!  "...Install a good ad blocker"


To me, that's the root of it all.

Did anyone also notice, at the very end of a page, on the right hand side the " manage consent" clickable , I am not exactly sure of the significance of that link


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## bandmommy

milandro said:


> To me, that's the root of it all.
> 
> Did anyone also notice, at the very end of a page, on the right hand side the " manage consent" clickable , I am not exactly sure of the significance of that link


My android phone has no such clickable at the end of any page.


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## datsaxman

Maybe it is "Do Not Sell My Data". I find that bottom right.


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## Tranechaser

Here’s the point you guys are missing. I’m a saxophone player by hobby, I come here to relax and have fun. If they launch a new software at work and I have to use it for my job, sure I will spend time taking tutorials and reading FAQ’s. This place was already getting cumbersome with all of the new rules and the whole “if you don’t like it go start your own forum” attitude from the admin. At this point I don’t have the desire to put forth any more effort to learn this new software and then pay a premium not to see ads on top of that.


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## Sigmund451

Install an adblocker, hang around a little still. You clearly know the basics. Spend more time with your horn, a little less here until you are comfortable with the balance. Dont let the place stress you out. Live isn’t always all or nothing.


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## Pete Thomas

Tranechaser said:


> This place was already getting cumbersome with all of the new rules and the whole "if you don't like it go start your own forum" attitude from the admin.


I have no idea what this is about, and quite honestly I find it quite hurtful after the (thankless and unpaid) work we all do.


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## turf3

Don't you realize, OP, that it's all your fault?

The standard IT response, "It must have been something you did."

I wrestle with crappy software all day to earn a living. I'm not very interested in doing it for a hobby. It's kind of like taking up a hobby of cleaning toilets. I can do it, and if you pay me to clean toilets I'll clean toilets, and I'll keep the one at home as clean as I need to avoid disease and bad smells, but to do it for fun?

NAAAAHHHHHH.

Frankly I'm astonished how the general public just supinely roll over and let the software idiots have their way. If your car worked as poorly as consumer-grade software you'd be joining in a massive class action suit. If airplanes worked as poorly as consumer-grade software the people responsible would be taken out behind the hangar and summarily shot.


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## AddictedToSax

mrpeebee said:


> Install a good ad blocker, that works (forum owners will never support that option in FAQ)!


Use a VPN with a built-in ad blocker and the pop-up problem goes away. I was using AdBlocker Ultimate on the old site but then something changed and I couldn't see anything at all except the header. I'm now using a standard issue VPN with adblocking on both my laptop and my iPhone XR and am not having any problems with the site.



Pete Thomas said:


> I have no idea what this is about, and quite honestly I find it quite hurtful after the (thankless and unpaid) work we all do.


I don't get that either, Pete. I know there were some complaints about the change to Marketplace rules but I'm not a GAS-sy kind of member so it doesn't affect me. Other than that, who knows? Maybe the purging of political rants? I've waltzed close to the line a few times and gotten a gentle warning but I never held it against you or the other admins. I knew what I was saying and how it might be interpreted.

I think 99% of us appreciate what you do. I know I do. Thanks for your dedication to keeping things civil here.


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## Pete Thomas

AddictedToSax said:


> think 99% of us appreciate what you do. I know I do. Thanks for your dedication to keeping things civil here.


Thank you.


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## Dr G

Tranechaser said:


> Here's the point you guys are missing. I'm a saxophone player by hobby, I come here to relax and have fun. If they launch a new software at work and I have to use it for my job, sure I will spend time taking tutorials and reading FAQ's. This place was already getting cumbersome with all of the new rules and the whole "if you don't like it go start your own forum" attitude from the admin. At this point I don't have the desire to put forth any more effort to learn this new software and then pay a premium not to see ads on top of that.


<gasp> Oh no, how will anyone be able to buy all your excess gear?!  And yeah, the new emoticons suck too.

Free - It's worth everything you pay for it.

I'm with you - it's a pain.

Next?


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## Tranechaser

Pete Thomas said:


> I have no idea what this is about, and quite honestly I find it quite hurtful after the (thankless and unpaid) work we all do.


Sorry Pete, that wasn't meant as a reference to you. I have been told by an administrator to go start my own site a couple of times, but it wasn't you that said it. I do appreciate the work you guys have done and I know this software transition isn't your fault.


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## Tranechaser

Dr G said:


> <gasp> Oh no, how will anyone be able to buy all your excess gear?!  And yeah, the new emoticons suck too.
> 
> Free - It's worth everything you pay for it.
> 
> I'm with you - it's a pain.
> 
> Next?


I've bought some of your excess gear before from this site, what's your point?


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## Dr G

Tranechaser said:


> I've bought some of your excess gear before from this site, what's your point?


My point is that it is worth the effort, to some of us, to make this work.

For me, I was just entering another Clear-the-Closet phase when all this happened. Wanna buy some clarinets and flutes? Maybe an alto (Borgani Jubilee is in the Marketplace)???


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## Tranechaser

Dr G said:


> My point is that it is worth the effort, to some of us, to make this work.
> 
> For me, I was just entering another Clear-the-Closet phase when all this happened. Wanna buy some clarinets and flutes? Maybe an alto (Borgani Jubilee is in the Marketplace)???


The alto sounds interesting, but I wouldn't be able to find it!


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## JL

I just checked out the FAQ and while I haven't worked through all of it, I found it very useful and informative. Definitely worth having a look to get better acquainted with the new format and learn how to navigate it. I figured out some things just by hit & miss, clicking here and there, but the FAQ makes it easier.

And I second the respect and appreciation for the moderators who put in a lot of their own time and effort to help keep the site up and running. Thanks Pete, mrpeebee, and the rest of you mods.


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## Dr G




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## skeller047

My $DAYJOB is working on a “full stack” web based application for internal use at my company. It’s a big enough company that the application is used by many departments. I work on the “back end” mostly, but do dabble in what most people think of as “web development”. 

As a result, I have my finger on the pulse of the web development community as a whole. My opinion: most web developers should go take a class or five in usability. 

Developers are so used to the idea that the software they use to create web sites changes significantly every year, that the web sites reflect it directly. Couple this with the overall decrease in attention span, especially among young people, and we get an ever-changing landscape of web applications... like this one.

Imagine if saxophone fingerings changed at this rate. That’s why people have trouble here. I can deal with it because I’m a software professional, but most people are gonna have a few issues...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dr G

Tranechaser said:


> The alto sounds interesting, but I wouldn't be able to find it!


Try searching "Borgani silver pearl Jubilee alto with two solid silver necks"


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## milandro

bandmommy said:


> My android phone has no such clickable at the end of any page.


well, my computer shows this (dark mode or clear)


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## bandmommy

milandro said:


> well, my computer shows this (dark mode or clear)
> View attachment 5266


My bottom of the page.


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## warp x

New format is much better for me. The old forum was pretty much unusable for me; sometimes I had to log in 4 times to be able to post something. 'Recommended reading' is a bit silly but other than that I like it.


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## milandro

bandmommy said:


> My bottom of the page.


Well, I don't know, it may have something to do with geolocation since we Europeans require some extra cookie consent things


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## Sigmund451

I personally hate the gdpr and all the interruptions. You can say what you want about privacy but Snoden proved before the gdpr that its all a sham. So leave me alone with all the extra popups.


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## kreacher

milandro said:


> Well, I don't know, it may have something to do with geolocation since we Europeans require some extra cookie consent things


Actually, it doesn't show to me either, and I'm not masking my ip or anything.


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## milandro

well, I can only show you again that at the very bottom om every page , to the right, this link is there

I can hardly believe that it is reserved for me and me alone, maybe I should feel flattered

( It is there on Safari, Chrome and Firefox so it is not something which depends on the browser)


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## bandmommy

milandro said:


> well, I can only show you again that at the very bottom om every page , to the right, this link is there
> 
> I can hardly believe that it is reserved for me and me alone, maybe I should feel flattered
> 
> ( It is there on Safari, Chrome and Firefox so it is not something which depends on the browser)
> 
> View attachment 5299


Maybe it's a phone vs desk/laptop thing.
I use chrome on my phone and you saw that it's not there. 🤷


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## datsaxman

milandro said:


> well, I can only show you again that at the very bottom om every page , to the right, this link is there
> 
> I can hardly believe that it is reserved for me and me alone, maybe I should feel flattered
> 
> ( It is there on Safari, Chrome and Firefox so it is not something which depends on the browser)


No need to be a donkey, Andre. She posted her screeenshot. It is not there. It is on my page, but maybe not everybody's.


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## JayeLID

Pete Thomas said:


> What's that????


Abrochado


mrpeebee said:


> It's like it is for now, and please don't blame me (or other old SOTW moderators) for these issues, I'm spending already more of my very spares free time here than I would like to do trying, to help out.


I do not believe people are 'blaming' not taking it out on the mods whatsoever. I would not say that my comment that the FAQ provides relatively little help regarding the larger, more contentious issues which are cropping up here is in anyway pointing a finger at you or any other mod.

Pete has done well in explaining your positions as well as your empowerment in this situation. I don't think anyone here has anything but gratitude towards you guys.

There seems to be an interesting (and misguided) developing dynamic/narrative here that folks unhappy with what is going on somehow is indicative of a disrespect or lack of appreciation for the mods.
I think that is a misinterpretation/mischaracterization...I doubt very much the vast majority of members feel this way at all.

Thus, criticism for the changes which many feel are...annoying, unhelpful, difficult, not user-friendly...should not be interpreted as disrespect for the Mods here.



mrpeebee said:


> Change is a part of life, unfortunately also unwanted change (like this forum and maybe other software upgrades).


With everything I just said above...I now must add this: I completely respect you...but..."change is a part of life" ?

Please, Peebee....a bit more respect towards me and others than this sort of comment, eh ?

The point here is, and has always been, not the fact that the platform has "changed", and "people don't like change so this is why folks are all bothered" - to intimate this is ersatz ...and a bit of a dodge. 
The issue at the moment is: do the changes which have been applied make the user experience better or worse ? 



Dr G said:


>


Nothing to do with 'fearing' anything.

Just a matter of consideration of what changes may be appropriate, and what changes may be so annoying as to drive away members.

As I mentioned before...a user of the former SOTW version arriving at Cafe Saxophone would have no trouble nor annoyances with the latter...although it is significantly different from the old SOTW. So to intimate that any change is met with resistance....is both, well for lack of a better word...trite....and not particularly sequitir to what the issues are here.


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## JayeLID

mrpeebee said:


> Install a good ad blocker, that works (forum owners will never support that option in FAQ)!


I have been using an adblocker for many years now, so FWIW I never really experienced the ads in the old, post-Harri version which folks complained about.

However, the point seems to be....if THOSE ads were an annoyance to some....the new version has ramped that up to a different level. There is valid reason for member dissatisfaction in that change.

I have adblocker, VPN the whole sh'bang...so again, it doesn't effect me. But that doesn't mean I won't criticize something like the "Abrochado" occurrence...which is simply absurd, really.


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## mrpeebee

JayeLID said:


> I completely respect you...but..."change is a part of life" ?
> 
> Please, Peebee....a bit more respect towards me and others than this sort of comment, eh ?


I don't see the dis-respect part, but if you did read it like that: that's not what I meant!




JayeLID said:


> The point here is, and has always been, not the fact that the platform has changed, but rather do the changes which have been applied make the user experience better or worse ?


That really depends on what you are looking at: I'm sure mobile users are more happy with how the new software works, I'm also sure that most users don't like the new user interface (including me), but you can get used to that.

We also know that the main reason for this upgrade is in improvements for the owner of the forum: it's more stable, easier to maintain, has less security issues, is much better to dump more ads on the members, etc...

Change is a part of life, unfortunately also unwanted change!


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## skeller047

I’m gonna say this again, but in a different way. Change for the sake of change is rampant in the world of web-based apps. Developers always feel that things could be better, and management always feels that changing things often keeps the brand “fresh”. 

That doesn’t really serve us saxophonists - the number of changes to the saxophone in its 175 year history is about equal to the number of changes to SOTW in the last 2 years. I’m talking about USER INTERFACE changes here, like adding a key or changing the forum menu. Not acoustic improvements or beefing up security. 

As musicians, we are used to doing the same thing over and over, for many years - this is the path to mastery. As web users, we have to get used to changing Interfaces, features moving or changing, annoying lockouts, etc - this is the path to anxiety. No wonder people are complaining.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bkenes

JayeLID said:


> It's similar to CafeSaxophone...but CafeSaxophone is actually better in regards to user friendliness....by more than just a wee bit.


Maybe it's time to migrate to CafeSaxophone? It looks cozy there...


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## milandro

bandmommy said:


> Maybe it's a phone vs desk/laptop thing.
> I use chrome on my phone and you saw that it's not there. 🤷


Possibly, I am not disputing that it is not there, but if it is here it is here by design and may have some thing to do with one thing or other involved with the adverts.


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## datsaxman

Gibberish, really. Clears things up.


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## bvhoyweg

skeller047 said:


> I'm gonna say this again, but in a different way. Change for the sake of change is rampant in the world of web-based apps. Developers always feel that things could be better, and management always feels that changing things often keeps the brand "fresh".
> 
> That doesn't really serve us saxophonists - the number of changes to the saxophone in its 175 year history is about equal to the number of changes to SOTW in the last 2 years. I'm talking about USER INTERFACE changes here, like adding a key or changing the forum menu. Not acoustic improvements or beefing up security.
> 
> As musicians, we are used to doing the same thing over and over, for many years - this is the path to mastery. As web users, we have to get used to changing Interfaces, features moving or changing, annoying lockouts, etc - this is the path to anxiety. No wonder people are complaining.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I hear your griefs.

But you're comparing a mature business (making music) with a business which is still developing...
When I finished school, Internet was not yet available.
After a couple of years I was able to use CompuServer with a dialup modem.
I saw how WWW won from Gopher and the emerge of the world wide web.
Sharing photos was just possible, Streaming movies or music was laughed at.

Fast forward: 10 years ago, the mobile market exploded, it became usable for the masses.
Again something new must be catered for: Cell phones, tablets. These are changes visible to you,

Some of the changes are just for us: people behind the scene who keep the (computer) lights on.
Some changes allow us to work with more people on the same problem. Others allow us to just run things with less hardware, consuming less power (which is for our business a major problem).

And the end is still not in sight: this business is still not mature. So it will continue to change.

I don't expect in my live time to see it mature.


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## Pete Thomas

JayeLID said:


> I do not believe people are 'blaming' not taking it out on the mods whatsoever.


Not so much publically but I have been getting messages such as "I _know_ you can do this...." implying they don't believe us when we say we no longer are able to fix things.

Yes, staff used to be able to fix posting permissions etc. but now we can't.


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## JayeLID

Pete Thomas said:


> Not so much publically but I have been getting messages such as "I _know_ you can do this...." implying they don't believe us when we say we no longer are able to fix things.
> 
> Yes, staff used to be able to fix posting permissions etc. but now we can't.


Sorry to hear that...perhaps your recent public thread statements re what position you Mods are actually in, and what influence you may or may not have.... will make those comments go away.


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## Jazz Paladin

I’ll take unsound business decisions for $1,000, Alex...


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## Bloo Dog

I don't live online on SOTW 24/7 as some seem to do, and I am long past the point of obsessing over which saxophone is better than another, or where it's made, or whether my saxes are forgeries, so the new format is just an annoyance that I'll probably not need to deal with very often. 

But cheers to all.


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## PigSquealer

OK what happened to the homepage. All the main headings with the drop-down for subheadings. If I go to my fourm listings the first half of the page is “recommended for you”. 
Home is not site home. It’s my home ?
I want to send a new member a link for the homepage. If I can’t find it how can I new member. Grrrr


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## PigSquealer

Clicking on the site icon on the upper left no longer sends you to the homepage. It comes up as the “new” posts page.


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## mmichel

PigSquealer said:


> OK what happened to the homepage. All the main headings with the drop-down for subheadings. If I go to my fourm listings the first half of the page is "recommended for you".
> Home is not site home. It's my home ?
> I want to send a new member a link for the homepage. If I can't find it how can I new member. Grrrr


If you click on the list-like icon on the upper right (between the "new" icon and your profile photo icon), it will take you to the forum home.


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## PigSquealer

mmichel said:


> If you click on the list-like icon on the upper right (between the "new" icon and your profile photo icon), it will take you to the forum home.


thanks for the reply.
If I click on that it goes to a page that lists all of "my followed forms". Then the lower half of the page is what used to be the main homepage. I don't care to send someone the link with all the things I follow. It's not fair to them.


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## mmichel

PigSquealer said:


> thanks for the reply.
> If I click on that it goes to a page that lists all of "my followed forms". Then the lower half of the page is what used to be the main homepage. I don't care to send someone the link with all the things I follow. It's not fair to them.


Huh, mine doesn't do that. I just get sent to the normal "forums" page.

I don't know how your settings differ from mine, whatever it is almost certainly only applies when you're signed in. If you sign out (or open a private window) and go to "www.saxontheweb.net/forums/", it should take you to the standard forum homepage.


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## PigSquealer

mmichel said:


> Huh, mine doesn't do that. I just get sent to the normal "forums" page.
> 
> I don't know how your settings differ from mine, whatever it is almost certainly only applies when you're signed in. If you sign out (or open a private window) and go to "www.saxontheweb.net/forums/", it should take you to the standard forum homepage.


I know this is very odd. It's like my homepage of all of the forms that I follow. Then below is what we would normally call the homepage.


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## nvilletele

When I click on the “Sax on the Web” link at top left of the page to go to the homepage, I instead just get a list of ”Recommended for you” threads, but there is a link for “Full Forum Listings.” That link gives me all forums.

when I click on “New” at the top of the page, it brings up new threads, but also provides a series of navigation links, “Home > Forums >”. The Home brings me to “Recommended for you” threads and the Forums link brings me to the full list of forums. 

Home is where the recommended heart is, I guess.


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## Lucille

I guess it would be frowned on to send VerticalScope an email and ask them what they are smoking.


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## PigSquealer

If following any forms they now become part of "your" homepage. Followed by the main homepage. If none of you have followed a homepage this is how you do it. It covers the whole category instead of individual threads. That way every time someone post in that given category you receive an alert. clicking on "new" every time I login I find I'm missing many conversations. I don't understand why but sometimes it's over four days.....that old news by then.


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## milandro

I have bookmarked the new posts as my entry page









New Posts







www.saxontheweb.net


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## Pete Thomas

PigSquealer said:


> If following any forms they now become part of "your" homepage. Followed by the main homepage.


I'm not totally sure what you are saying, and although I'd prefer to not have Mr.Pedantic sitting on my shoulder (and I apologise on his behalf for being so pedantic), I have to say for things like this it's probably good to clarify a bit of terminolgy, because I don't know what you mean by "your" homepage. Mr. pedantic tells me there is only one homepage, which is is what you get when you click on *Home*. There is no actual navigation link for that like in many websites, but it's generally now accepted it's the page you get when clicking on the logo. It is there in the breadcrumb navigation though









It's also as with most websites the page at the "root" or "top level"of the domain, ie it is the website domain name with no extra bits afterwards so in this case it is *Sax on the Web Forum *as opposed to *https://www.saxontheweb.net/forums/*

What I'm trying to say is I'm a bit confused about everyone having their own ("your") homepage. I think maybe you mean people have a certain pages they like to come to first and would normally set that in their browser bookmark. It might be the actual *homepage* (if you like the list of "recommended for you", or it may be the *forum list *or *New Posts*) or once specific forum or subforum



PigSquealer said:


> If none of you have followed a homepage this is how you do it. It covers the whole category instead of individual threads.


Again, it's not really following a homepage, it would be a case of following a forum (or subforum) which has not changed in many years, only the terminology. (It used to becalled "subscribing" to a forum or subforum) in the old vBulletin software. And as with subscribing (I think) you can choose to be notified with or without email (in your preferenes or at the time of clicking on the follow button).

There is a change here in that those forums you are "following" now show above the main forum index as quite rightly mentioned. I find that quite useful, but maybe by accident because it can also double as a list of the forums I'm mosted interested in.

I've just given Mr.Pedantic a good kicking because he doesn't take into account how confusing it is when the terminology has changed since the platform upgrade in October. I also find it very confusing myself because although VS is using xenforo (probably the most widely used forum software) they have actually changed some of the terminology for their own forums).


OLDNEWSubscribing (to a forum or thread)Following (but "watching" on most other xenforo forums)PM (Private message)ConversationMarketplaceClassifiedsHomepageHomepage


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## DryMartini

I love the new format better. Blocking features seem to work better so far. That promotes better behavior.


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## PigSquealer

Pete Thomas said:


> I'm not totally sure what you are saying, and although I'd prefer to not have Mr.Pedantic sitting on my shoulder (and I apologise on his behalf for being so pedantic), I have to say for things like this it's probably good to clarify a bit of terminolgy, because I don't know what you mean by "your" homepage. Mr. pedantic tells me there is only one homepage, which is is what you get when you click on *Home*. There is no actual navigation link for that like in many websites, but it's generally now accepted it's the page you get when clicking on the logo. It is there in the breadcrumb navigation though
> View attachment 101507
> 
> 
> It's also as with most websites the page at the "root" or "top level"of the domain, ie it is the website domain name with no extra bits afterwards so in this case it is *Sax on the Web Forum *as opposed to *https://www.saxontheweb.net/forums/*
> 
> What I'm trying to say is I'm a bit confused about everyone having their own ("your") homepage. I think maybe you mean people have a certain pages they like to come to first and would normally set that in their browser bookmark. It might be the actual *homepage* (if you like the list of "recommended for you", or it may be the *forum list *or *New Posts*) or once specific forum or subforum
> 
> Again, it's not really following a homepage, it would be a case of following a forum (or subforum) which has not changed in many years, only the terminology. (It used to becalled "subscribing" to a forum or subforum) in the old vBulletin software. And as with subscribing (I think) you can choose to be notified with or without email (in your preferenes or at the time of clicking on the follow button).
> 
> There is a change here in that those forums you are "following" now show above the main forum index as quite rightly mentioned. I find that quite useful, but maybe by accident because it can also double as a list of the forums I'm mosted interested in.
> 
> I've just given Mr.Pedantic a good kicking because he doesn't take into account how confusing it is when the terminology has changed since the platform upgrade in October. I also find it very confusing myself because although VS is using xenforo (probably the most widely used forum software) they have actually changed some of the terminology for their own forums).
> 
> 
> OLDNEWSubscribing (to a forum or thread)Following (but "watching" on most xenforo forums)PM (Private message)ConversationMarketplaceClassifiedsHomepageHomepage


Yes, Your reply is accurate to the questions. "Your homepage" should be "my homepage " in my question. Confusion with the Termanology is spot on. There is no longer a true homepage with all the listings , forms and sub forms in a Single viewing area. VS added so much space you have to scroll for miles. Picking up the "home ?" page to send it to a new member now includes all " my followed forms" So that could be confusing.
It was so much easier to have all forms in one viewing window. I miss the activity stream too.

So you are correct. When I login this is the first page I see. Then if you click on "full forum listing" you go to the 3rd picture...... and scroll forever.


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## PigSquealer

So let me re-ask the question. When a new member joins what do they see?

Outdated "recommended for you" posts. 
Or SOTW form page a.k.a. homepage.


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## JL

PigSquealer said:


> So let me re-ask the question. When a new member joins what do they see?
> 
> Outdated "recommended for you" posts.


I'm not too clear on what your issue is, but yes, the "home" page appears with the "recommended for you" posts (you can always get there by clicking the Sax on the Web logo). If you want the full forum listing, you can simply click on "full forum listing" near the top of the page. Or, to get the same place as that, click on the series of horizontal lines just to the right of "NEW".

If you want to see the newest posts, click on "NEW".

I'm not real computer savvy, but this seems fairly straight-forward to me (at least now that I've got used to it).


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## PigSquealer

It's straightforward for a lot of us. I'm not having any problems. My question was in regards to sending a new member the information page. When a newbie logs in what do they see for the first time? As you know it's quite often for newbies to post questions that have been answered 1 million times. I'm thinking they do not see the form information in front of them, or possibly unable to get a reasonable answer on the site search engine.

It's been over two months since a new member introduced in themselves. Do they even see this page when they join?








Admin - SOTW new member introductions ~ July 2018-


Hello, I am Bubban. I am mostly a guitar guy, but played the sax many years ago. I still love the instrument. My Dad used to play sax, but sadly has passed on. I have a couple of his instruments. The ones he used and really loved, I will definitely keep, but a couple I may need to sell...




www.saxontheweb.net





It took a long time for many established members to figure this revision/ revised site. 
There's a multitude of members who never came back. Honestly I don't blame them.


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## Pete Thomas

Before the change of platform we had a welcome notice for new members. We are no longer able to do that. They see the same as anyone, ie there is the homepage (recommended threads) the forum list, new posts, the account details and the "three dot" menu on the right.

After first registering (and before email confirmation) they get this










Then once confirmed you get invited to the tour, which shows you the menus, FAqs etc.










And you get a notice asking if you want push notifications.


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## PigSquealer

OK, so I was curious how many new members there have been since the renovation. No such information available. Although there is a small area on the bottom left of the members page. It shows the current twelve new members. I was curious so I clicked on a couple of them to view their activity. 5 of twelve have posted. 
I don't recall seeing this form before. Looks like some new members introduced themselves. 








For New SOTW Members


Welcome newcomer! Please introduce yourself.




www.saxontheweb.net


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