# SOTW animated advertising - SHUT UP ALREADY!!!



## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

Is it just me, or isn't the blinking advertising tainting the SOTW "experience"?

I know the site doesn't run itself and the bills have to be paid and all, but there has been something soothing and simple about the SOTW blues since I've been a participant.

It's like going to a cafe to share (usually) pleasant conversation with some friends and Jacob Silj is at the next table. Here's some help with that one...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jacob+silj

It seems to have slowed navigating the site as well - and when clicking around, even the slightest delay becomes quite noticeable. And I'm on cable modem.

The biggest issue I have is the pulsating P. Mauriat ad on the side hogging up my screen width. The "James Carter Plays RooPads" reruns don't bother me so much. I notice it's there - I think it's a fine place to have advertising, and I hope it serves both SOTW and MusicMedic well.

To be clear, I have no problem with anyone advertising here but this is bothering me to the point where it irks me every time I visit.

Ok - now I will shut up.


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## Nefertiti (Feb 2, 2003)

I never even noticed until you brought it up.


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## Martinman (May 3, 2006)

I don't like having adds that say "only click here if you are 18"

I mean, we can have adds like that but can't let Marty make jokes?

I gues the bills do need paid though.


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## Nefertiti (Feb 2, 2003)

Martinman said:


> I don't like having adds that say "only click here if you are 18"
> 
> I mean, we can have adds like that but can't let Marty make jokes?
> 
> I gues the bills do need paid though.


I missed that one. What add says that?


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## Martinman (May 3, 2006)

Nefertiti said:


> I missed that one. What add says that?


It was on the other night. I don't know what it was for, but there are only certain things you put the 18 disclaimer on....


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## Discreet (May 23, 2007)

Maybe this forum will have a feature where if you donate a certain sum of money, you can turn off advertising... seems fair to all parties


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## jacobeid (Feb 25, 2006)

Hey Ed, I just had an idea. I'm not so sure how practical it is. How long does one reface take you? This sort of goes along the lines of the donate a mouthpiece thread. If someone paid harri for a refacing done by you, I'm sure that would help Harri in the bills and maybe some ads could come down?


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## JavaWolf (Jul 3, 2007)

I have to agree on this one; I have dialup, and any lag can become a huge pain in the @ss.


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## Rackety Sax (Apr 3, 2004)

This was discussed before and kcp suggested that those who are bothered by the ads should take their complaints to the advertisers.


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## Rackety Sax (Apr 3, 2004)

jacobeid said:


> Hey Ed, I just had an idea. I'm not so sure how practical it is. How long does one reface take you? This sort of goes along the lines of the donate a mouthpiece thread. If someone paid harri for a refacing done by you, I'm sure that would help Harri in the bills and maybe some ads could come down?


As long as we're volunteering others for donations, howzabout you send the cash for the refacing to Harri and save EZ some trouble by waiving the refacing job? :twisted:


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## Kelly Bucheger (Jun 5, 2006)

The Camino browser (for Mac OSX) allows you to select as a preference "Play animated images only once." And for that reason, I hadn't realized all the animated hoo-haw going on till I turned off the feature to see what the problem was.

I turned it back on.


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## grevsax24 (May 18, 2004)

Well, I never even noticed. Firefox has an amazing add-on called Ad Blocker Plus that allows you to block any image/ad on the screen. I've never even seen this ad! Yet another reason why Firefox is awesome.


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## SactoPete (Jan 23, 2004)

It's actually kind of poor ad etiquette - creates user fatigue, and most professional sites don't go for the endless animated GIF.

A more acceptable approach is to use flash. You can get much better animation, more interesting content, and can finish it with some very mild effects to keep people's eyes drawing to the ad - for example, a company logo with a slight wave to it's background will do the trick there.

Most people have flash installed... and for those that don't you can still have the painful GIF show up.

As a "marketing guy" I must admit it drives me absolutely nuts, and actually turns me OFF the products being advertised. 

Pete


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## dirty (Nov 11, 2004)

I figure we can put up with the ads or lose SOTW. Or those with money to give can give a lot more.


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## ShedShark (Aug 11, 2007)

IMO, the flash fly-outs SUCK, they're even more intrusive than the AG's.


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## heath (Jul 28, 2004)

I personally vote for ads with the 18 or 21 years of age requirement. I've never seen any, but those would be better than that dang flashing P.M. to the right. If it's going to be flashing at least make it something us guys want to look at.


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## SactoPete (Jan 23, 2004)

dirty said:


> I figure we can put up with the ads or lose SOTW. Or those with money to give can give a lot more.


I don't have a problem with ads - I have a problem with bad ads.

Pete


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## brutlix (Apr 28, 2005)

When you use Opera browser, you can easily
block ad-content. Right click anywhere on the page,
choose 'block content' from the menu,
select ads that bother you (while holding shift key) and click done. 
You'll never see them again.


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## RootyTootoot (May 23, 2007)

I seem to have tuned out the Carter and Mauriat ads now though i found them v irksome at first. But the "bottom line" point is surely the one dirty made earlier. The site needs to be financed. If members dug deeper in their pockets then there would be less need for ad revenue. I do agree though that the animated ads are particularly annoying. But ultimately it's for those who run the site to make decisions about how to raise finance, isn't it? And if the advertiser will pay significantly more for an animated ad then...


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## Dave Wright (Jun 20, 2005)

The only thing that I find annoying is that the page doesn't load until the ad has finished its circuit , a few seconds. Or do I have a slower than normal connection? 
Every page viewed x 2/3 seconds = more wasted time on this chair and not in the shed.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

jacobeid said:


> Hey Ed, I just had an idea. I'm not so sure how practical it is. How long does one reface take you? This sort of goes along the lines of the donate a mouthpiece thread. If someone paid harri for a refacing done by you, I'm sure that would help Harri in the bills and maybe some ads could come down?


I routinely donate to the forum regularly.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

davesaxa1 said:


> The only thing that I find annoying is that the page doesn't load until the ad has finished its circuit , a few seconds. Or do I have a slower than normal connection?
> Every page viewed x 2/3 seconds = more wasted time on this chair and not in the shed.


I experience this regularly, too. I use MSIE but maybe need to look into Firefox or some browser that blocks unwanted content better.

I'll add, too, that I'm less inclined to donate money when I see that the forum is being financed by commercial advertising. Of course I don't know what percentage is donation vs. commercial, but my mental model then becomes "Oh - they are pulling revenue from P. Mauriat (or whoever else) and they maybe don't need my asistance any more." Add that to the blinking flashing animation stirring my pot and I'm even LESS likely to donate.

And I'm not a stingy dude.


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## gary (Feb 4, 2003)

If that's the way it's gotta be to get the money I'm willing to live with it. However, to comment on the thang itself, to me it's obnoxious and I actually avoid looking at it - sort of the opposite, I would think, of what the sponsor had in mind. I hate these kinds of ads.


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## hgiles (Aug 26, 2005)

chitownjazz said:


> As long as we're volunteering others for donations, howzabout you send the cash for the refacing to Harri and save EZ some trouble by waiving the refacing job? :twisted:


I was glad you didn't say a 'waving' the refacing job. Doh!!


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## kcp (Feb 2, 2003)

davesaxa1 said:


> The only thing that I find annoying is that the page doesn't load until the ad has finished its circuit , a few seconds. Or do I have a slower than normal connection?
> Every page viewed x 2/3 seconds = more wasted time on this chair and not in the shed.


I dont have this problem at all. Must be something to do with connection.

In IE you can zoom-in or zoom-out via the "Page' menu, then select "zoom" and then "Personalize" - I've found that if I set the zoom to 115%, the P.Mauriat ad is completely off the screen -- Depending on your monitor, settings and etc you may need to experiment a little.

I personally don't bother to play with the zoom because the ad doesn't bother me that much and because this is also modifyable via the Accessibility settings, which is what I use to modify font type and color as well as the background color. Dark blue text on a white BG is espescially problematic for me, but many people are also bothered by that, neon lightings, computer screen glare and such to some degree. Yet I'm suprised that no one ever complained about that before since there is only 1 skin available on this forum (??) - Anyhow, I don't want to change the subject. This was just an observation.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

A kind SOTW-er directed me on how to turn off the animation in MSIE - Tools, Internet Options, Advanced, then Multimedia Settings.

The headache has stopped, though I am still bothered by the ad eating up my space.

I've found, too, I can modify the width of my window just enough to cut it off. I'd rather browse with a wider window, but to not have to see the ugly ad along the side makes up for that.

...and Cousin Eddie is SO attractive to look at, isn't he?


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## HOUSTON NONET (Oct 5, 2004)

Makes me hate "THAT" PRODUCT


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## saxmanglen (Feb 2, 2003)

EZ said:


> A kind SOTW-er directed me on how to turn off the animation in MSIE - Tools, Internet Options, Advanced, then Multimedia Settings.
> 
> The headache has stopped, though I am still bothered by the ad eating up my space.


Thanks for the tip Ed!

G


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## Spooner (Jun 14, 2007)

EZ said:


> ...and Cousin Eddie is SO attractive to look at, isn't he?


"....you'd better take a rain check on that one Art, he's got a lip fungus they ain't identified yet"

Classic.


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## Al Stevens (Apr 4, 2004)

kcp said:


> In IE you can zoom-in or zoom-out via the "Page' menu, then select "zoom" and then "Personalize" - I've found that if I set the zoom to 115%, the P.Mauriat ad is completely off the screen -- Depending on your monitor, settings and etc you may need to experiment a little.


Doesn't work when you have two monitors and the main one where IE opens is the one on the left. The Mauriat ad just goes over to the right monitor.

I'm with the fellow who says if sotw is going to collect revenue from advertisers, it must no longer need financial support from users. Just make sure management knows why donations have fallen off.

Maybe sotw could have a "pledge week" like public TV has. Now that would really be annoying.


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## SactoPete (Jan 23, 2004)

Just to re-iterate... you CAN have animation that plays ONCE at page load, and is more attractive. The advertisers get their message accross BETTER, and users aren't annoyed.

This is the way 99% of commercial sites do it these days. Go to Yahoo, WSJ, Forbes, whatever.... They do it FOR A REASON... it works best!

But what do I know...

Pete


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## Enviroguy (Sep 1, 2006)

I guess it's just the ultra-conservative right-wing whacko Republican in me, but I actually like seeing that SOTW has multiple corporate sponsors. 

These ads tell me things are going pretty well for SOTW and our favorite forum should be here for some time to come. Plus the animated P.M. and Carter Pad banners are tastefully done. Except for the delayed loading time on my extremely slow home dialup connection, I really don't have much of a problem with this.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

Smileys: 1K-ish at the most
SOTW logo in upper LH corner: 11.4K
Music Medic ad: 96.8K
P. Mauriat ad: 577.6K

I don't know how ads like this work in terms of payment, but instead of donations, can we just keep clicking on the ads so SOTW gets paid for the ad traffic?

Believe me - if donating a few mouthpieces would make the ad to my right disappear, I'd happily oblige.


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## Chris S (Jun 3, 2004)

EZ said:


> Smileys: 1K-ish at the most
> SOTW logo in upper LH corner: 11.4K
> Music Medic ad: 96.8K
> P. Mauriat ad: 577.6K
> ...


I'm not sure how it works with the SOTW ads. Harri's in charge of all that. I do know that if it's a pay per click advertising model (like Google's AdSense) just clicking on the ad constitutes what has been termed 'click fraud' and if the sponsor(s) sense that click fraud is happening, they can legally get a good chunk of advertising monies sent back.

As for all of those who say that user donations aren't needed since we have ads, not true. We had to move to a dedicated server sometime last year (I think, not sure on the timeline), and those aren't cheap. I'm not going to guesstimate what Harri's paying, because he's my boss. Think back. When did the ads start appearing (aside from Kessler, he's been advertising here for a good number of years)? Yep, right around the time we moved to the dedicated server.

Have to run, more thoughts later this evening.

Best,
Chris S


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## Al Stevens (Apr 4, 2004)

Chris S said:


> As for all of those who say that user donations aren't needed since we have ads, not true.


What aren't needed are high-volume animated ads that slow the site down and are a constant annoying distraction.

When you turn off animations to lessen the distraction, you also turn off all animated gifs for all webpages, and that isn't always what you want. I have to leave them on, for example, to do website development.


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## bluesaxgirl (Jun 8, 2006)

No more complaining. Simple and clear. You don't have to look at the ads if you don't have a SOTW. 
Okay...my rant is over. Now go on. 
I just have to put in opinion. I have my own ad blocker, works everytime. Everyone should have it. It's mental. My eyes go right through them. I don't know anything you all are talking with the hoohah of blinking ads and whatnot.


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## kcp (Feb 2, 2003)

Al Stevens said:


> Doesn't work when you have two monitors and the main one where IE opens is the one on the left. The Mauriat ad just goes over to the right monitor.


Turn off the monitor on the right


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## Carl H. (Feb 2, 2003)

bluesaxgirl said:


> No more complaining. Simple and clear. You don't have to look at the ads if you don't have a SOTW.
> Okay...my rant is over. Now go on.
> I just have to put in opinion. I have my own ad blocker, works everytime. Everyone should have it. It's mental. My eyes go right through them. I don't know anything you all are talking with the hoohah of blinking ads and whatnot.


The looking is annoying, but it is the incredible download time is what bothers me. I have gone on the road recently and not even tried to check in here because on slower connections those ****ed graphics take forever to load.

On a tangent, thanks to Harri and the mods for letting the limit on new posts rise above 200. Makes it easier to catch up when I get back home.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

Understood, Chris. I certainly don't want to create a state of adnarchy here on SOTW.

But to be honest, I really am done wondering which sax pads to choose.


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## gary (Feb 4, 2003)

EZ said:


> A kind SOTW-er directed me on how to turn off the animation in MSIE - Tools, Internet Options, Advanced, then Multimedia Settings.


Hey, thanks for posting that...and thanks "kind SOTW-er". The blinking has stopped. Mooooocho better.


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## Gandalfe (Feb 1, 2000)

EZ said:


> Believe me - if donating a few mouthpieces would make the ad to my right disappear, I'd happily oblige.


Um, it would take more than the revenue from a couple of mouthpieces to pay for the costs of the forum (hardware, software, services, and maintenance). Have you priced web services for a small site yet? But then I suspect you really understand that.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

Of course.

I really have never had a problem with donating to SOTW and will continue to do so - in fact, I feel it's an obligation or minimally just plain good manners for anyone who frequents the site to contribute.

The increasing presence of advertising, understandably, leaves one with the impression that the site is being funded otherwise and the thought of making a donation may not even occur to participants. And if the advertising is annoying, it may even discourage it.

How about posting quarterly in a simple statement (percentages - not actual monetary values):
1) Percentage of the total operational expenses that have been covered by paid advertising
2) Percentage of the operational expenses that have been covered by member donations
3) Percentage remaining unfunded

Not looking for anything GAAP - just a general sense of things.

And who knows - maybe so much revenue is coming in from advertising that the donations to the forum are pure gravy. Wouldn't bother me at all. God knows Harri deserves it.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

I'll post it before someone else does:

EZ - SHUT UP ALREADY!!!

Time for some single malt...


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## Chris S (Jun 3, 2004)

Al Stevens said:


> What aren't needed are high-volume animated ads that slow the site down and are a constant annoying distraction.
> 
> When you turn off animations to lessen the distraction, you also turn off all animated gifs for all webpages, and that isn't always what you want. I have to leave them on, for example, to do website development.


Well.... take that up with the advertisers. I know that Curt (MusicMedic) and Dave (Kessler) probably take a look at these threads, and I know that at least one rep of the PM brand reads the forum regularly, so this is certainly the place to do it. My point was that just because there's advertising doesn't mean that member donations aren't needed. A dedicated server can cost upwards of $300. And that's what we've had to move to. As Gandalfe said, it takes more than revenue from a few mouthpieces to support the site. And those of you that have supported SOTW by selling a piece and giving proceeds to Harri.... THANK YOU.

Trust me, if Harri was getting icing on the cake, my current salary would likely go up. And it hasn't.... since I started.  :shock: :!:

Best,
Chris S


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## Al Stevens (Apr 4, 2004)

Chris S said:


> Well.... take that up with the advertisers.


With all due respect: Advertisers may put on your site only what you permit them to put on your site. Establish some guidelines for acceptable ads and they will comply. After all, sites such as this one are an advertiser's dream-a focused, targeted demographic with a large membership that congregates here specifically to address and share a common interest.


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## maestroelite (Jun 7, 2004)

Instead of complaining, you could use the Ad-Block Plus extension with Mozilla Firefox. It'll get rid of anything you want it to and you keep other animations. I forgot about ads on some sites I've used it on. Once you install it, right click on an add and click Ad-block image. Easy enough.


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## Al Stevens (Apr 4, 2004)

Complaining is more fun.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

maestroelite said:


> Instead of complaining...





Al Stevens said:


> Complaining is more fun.


I don't enjoy complaining but certain things are worth complaining about.

My only regret about bringing this up is that I should have done it privately first. That's the right way to complain. My apologies to all for that breach of good etiquette.

While my intention was to be constructive, the delivery was a bit improper.

I'd have no problem with the moderators locking this thread down or deleting it as I think it's generated some negative energy that may be unnecessarily perpetuating.


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## Al Stevens (Apr 4, 2004)

Negative energy beats atrophy every time.


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

Al Stevens said:


> Negative energy beats atrophy every time.


The last time I experienced atrophy was at a martial arts weapons competition.

I came in second place.


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## Reedsplinter (Jul 28, 2007)

EZ said:


> The last time I experienced atrophy was at a martial arts weapons competition.
> 
> I came in second place.


Sounds more like entropy to me. . . .


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## EZ (Jun 28, 2004)

Yeah - would have been first place had I not made the onlookers standing a little too close to the boundary scatter when I lunged towards them with the bo staff.

Entropy, indeed.


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## Chris S (Jun 3, 2004)

EZ said:


> I don't enjoy complaining but certain things are worth complaining about.
> 
> My only regret about bringing this up is that I should have done it privately first. That's the right way to complain. My apologies to all for that breach of good etiquette.
> 
> ...


I personally think that the thread has been very constructive. As I said before, I'm sure Kessler and MusicMedic check these types of threads, and a PM rep lurks on the board. So maybe they're getting ideas and you might see new, less-motion-sickness-inducing, ads on the way. If not... at least you made your voice heard on a polite, constructive way. No harm in that.


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## RootyTootoot (May 23, 2007)

EZ said:


> I don't enjoy complaining but certain things are worth complaining about.
> 
> My only regret about bringing this up is that I should have done it privately first. That's the right way to complain. My apologies to all for that breach of good etiquette.
> 
> ...


On the contrary!! I was thinking you raised the issues very respectfully. I also think it's a very good sign for the forum itself that such things can be discussed and none of those who run the site get in a tizzy about it.
IMHO.


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## Al Stevens (Apr 4, 2004)

EZ said:


> The last time I experienced atrophy was at a martial arts weapons competition.
> 
> I came in second place.


You were first runner up. It sounds more impressive that way.


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## jazzbluescat (Feb 2, 2003)

*re: ads*

Neither the blinking nor the "must be over 18" ads bother me. I just got hi speed internet after having dialup for 6 & 1/2 years; paint dries faster than it; I feel for dialuppers though.
The "over 18 ads" are just a business' way to say they don't want to do business with anybody under the age, especially go into contract with them. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Pete (Jan 27, 2003)

For anyone that still cares, please see http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=65098

A few comments:

1. I'm hopening that Harri will submit to havening my banner (i.e. the about 140px square picture) advertising my 2008 calendar when it's done, just so you know where I'm coming from.

2. I absotively HATE the ads that have recently popped up here, particularly the ones that are (or have been) on the left and right sides.

3. I have recommended to Harri that he has a specific AD-FREE theme in vBulletin that's accessible to only people that have donated directly to him. I haven't gotten a response.

4. I'll also say this because Harri hasn't responded: while Harri provides this nice webspace 'n' stuff, WE are providing the content. No content, and nobody comes here -- and thus no ad revenue. Harri, your content providers are complaining about something and some of them are offering suggestions on how to fix it. Please take a look at their suggestions and then comment.

5. These threads are offering primers on HOW TO TURN OFF ADS. While I know that if you even did a basic amount of Googling, you'd find out how to turn off most of the ads, someday an advertiser is going to look at a thread like this and say, "Why should I advertise there? They tell people in their forum how to disable my ads!"

6. I was more a fan of when Harri said stuff like, "We need money. Please donate." I haven't seen a thread like that in awhile. If you don't ask, you don't receive, Harri.

7. I'd like to see a cost breakdown on this website and what the income is from these ads and the various other fundraisers that have been posted here (such as the "donate a mouthpiece" thing). The last breakdown that I saw was when I was an Admin here. That was, what, three years ago? At least two.


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